In need of opinion from knifemakers.

wudnme

wudnme

Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
251
I ordered a knife to be made from a local knifemaker over a year ago. It was actually my wifes idea as my anniversary gift. He would not accept payment up front. I found out a month ago that it was ready from a friend who ordered the same time as I did. I never got a call from the maker until a week ago when he left a message to call him. I finally got around to calling him today to ask him if I could bring him part of the money to hold it until after christmas. At this time he let me know that he has sold my knife. I am dissapointed that I had to wait over a year for this knife , but he can't wait until he actually speaks to me to sell it. He says that he is going to finish some knives after christmas and I could get one of those. Now I am not sure if I want to deal with him anymore. It's almost as if my knife is gone and anything else would be a substitute. I am curious as to what you other knifemakers policies are regarding picking up a knife that someone has waited patiently over a year for. The maker is Jerry Mcdonald in Germantown, TN. The only reason I am givng his name is not to call him out , but in case any of you are familiar with his work. I think he makes an excellent knife or I wouldn't have ordered one. Should I get over it and get another knife from him, or do I have a valid reason to be upset and spend my money elsewhere. I would appreciate your advise.
 
I am not a knifemaker, but I am going to put my two cents in here anyway.

If that had happened to me I would probably look elsewhere for a knife. There may well be a good reason why the maker sold the knife only a week after leaving you a message that it was completed. Maybe the fact that you didn't get back to him right away left him with the impression that you didn't want the knife. The fact is though that a week is not long enough to give someone. Your job could have taken you away. You could have been on vacation, or in the hospital. He at least should have tried to contact you a second time stating that if you didn't get back to him within a certain number of days, he would sell the knife.

Maybe you should give him a call and ask him why he sold the knife so quickly. If the two of you hash it out, maybe you can come to some kind of understanding.
 
Well I'm not a knifemaker, however you have got my curiosity up.
You said the maker called you a week ago to say it was ready. Do you know when he sold the knife?
Did the maker know your friend had told you a month ago that it was ready? If so, I guess the maker though you no longer wanted the knife since you did not contact him.

I'm surprised you waited four weeks after your friend told you your knife was ready before you called the maker.
 
yeah....this one is a tough one...


from a maker's point of view....you finish the knife and expect the customer to be ready to pay so you can ship. Having knives sit around the shop is no fun...for sure.

Yet, from your POV, you have waited so long only to have been offered what you feel is too short of a window to put the money together.



Sometimes, you get calls from other people, ready to pay now...if you've got an extra knife...perhaps this was the case. He figured he hadn't heard from you....and you were no longer interested.

This actually does happen more often than not...which is why a maker would assume such a thing.




Honestly, though...this kind of thing doesn't happen to me...my troubles are the other way around....:D....it's been a year and the customer is ready to pay and wonders if they're ever going to get their knife and they email me like crazy. :D



Both the maker and the customer need to be committed to "keeping in touch". Don't order something and just wait around to hear back about it....don't call every day either...:foot:

And makers need to be more involved with customers...not avoiding them.



It's all relative really....I get probably 30-40 emails per day regarding custom knives/orders/details/etc. It's really hard to keep track of it all...and I've got a decent system going already. Stuff definitely falls between the cracks.


I say give him another try....but get a firm date when you can call back and check on progress....and insist it be built the same as your first order. If he won't do it, move on. Lots of makers out there...
 
A year seems a bit long, but I can see how things get hectic. Keeping in touch more often would have possibly prevented this issue. If you really like the craftsmanship of his knives, then it might be worth the wait. But I can see how you are a little disappointed, I would be. That's why I don't take too many knife orders at a time.
 
I would be miffed. Especially after waiting for a year, when I could have had another knife and been using it all that time. I would at least like some sort of explanation......mix up..........forgot it was your knife etc.

I think after a year of anticipation you are right to be miffed.
 
heck, I cant see selling a custom ordered work without having first made some sort of attempt to reconcile with my buyer, even though times have been tough I figure without my customers I wouldnt be in the knife business for very long
 
Probably two words can sum this up from both maker and buyer view points.

POOR COMMUNICATION!

Which is an ingredient in most failed business and/or buyer/seller transactions.
 
I would have been a bit ticked off..... to say the least !! I sometimes have knives finished for months before the owner actually picks them up. Hunters will come up here for only a week or two each year, place an order and say they won't be back until this time next year. Their knife will be waiting for them.

Also, IMHO, it was not your friends job to let you know your knife was finished a month ago. IMHO, the maker should have personally made several attempts at contacting you before selling.

I think in this case I have to agree with Kevin Jones, but only on the makers part, poor communication. I would much rather have a customer who patiently waits for the call that their knife is ready rather than one who calls every week wondering when it will be done. Once I take an order I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't changed his mind, no matter how long it takes. Otherwise they would get in touch and let me know........ its just common courtesy :)
 
The phone works two ways,meaning,that maker had business with you,so he should've called you directly to discuss your business together,rather than rely on your freind as a messenger ,to let you know of the knife order being ready.

A positive cash flow is one of the most important things in a small business,so,unless this knifemaker was a hobbyist,it is his responsibility to keep his customers informed on projects,in order to keep things going &keep a pos.cash flow going.

While we are on that,if any knifemakers I am doing business with see this & read it,please,contact me directly about MY orders,second hand communications can be misconstrued.

If that happened to me,I may accept another knife being made by the maker,but,not just one he was making in the near future,unless it was what I ordered,or,something I would want.

But I still would be a bit annoyed,but sh!t happens as they say,and it is only a knife.
-Vince
 
Kevin Jones said:
Probably two words can sum this up from both maker and buyer view points.

POOR COMMUNICATION!

Which is an ingredient in most failed business and/or buyer/seller transactions.
Click to expand...


You hit that nail directly on the head, Kevin!!!
Personally, over the course of making a customer's knife, I probably talk TOO much!!!! I add my customers to my mailing lists. When I make new knives that I post here and other places, I first email those photos to my old customers AND my new ones that haven't even made a purchase yet! I am CONSTANTLY in contact with customers new and old.
They ALWAYS know that I am thinking of them.
Sorry, I was talking about me again - that hardly ever happens.....
Anyway, it seems to me that before you make any serious decisions, give the maker a break - since you said you DO like his work - and ask him for an explanation.
It may be more simple than you first thought.
When in doubt - communicate.
 
I have known Jerry for a long time and never knew him to be other than a "stand up guy". At least talk to him and see if he has a valid reason for selling your knife.

Looks like a good place to say something that has bothered me for some time. As a full time maker, it is just like any other job. You work like hell to get orders out in a timely manner..........you should be paid in a timely manner. When you order a knife you know that it will be ready at some point so why not have the money put aside to pay for it. At least return the makers communication immediately and give a reason for needing to wait a few days to send payment. Most makers will understand the need to wait. My policy is this: When I start an order and am well into it enough to see a solid finish date I contact the customer and ask for payment to be sent. When things work out right the payment arrives about the same time as the knife is ready to ship. If you tell the maker the "check is in the mail" then it needs to be in the mail. Remember, we ship stuff all over so we know how long it takes an item to work its way through the system. Also we have sense enough to look at the postmark on the envelope and see the date it was mailed. It is hard to believe that someone who chooses to communicate via the internet would go weeks without checking their mail. I usuallly will wait two to three weeks for someone to respond. If they don't then I sell their knife to the first person that comes along that will take it. If I remake it for them or not is my choice not theirs. All the places that I spend my money either takes cash up front or has a due date (truck payment, car payment, utility bills, suppliers, etc.) I doubt there is anyone here that has a regular job that would stand for not being paid on payday.

I have seen a lot of posts in the past pertaining to "knifemaker etiquette". When you buy from somebody you as the customer have responsibilities also.

This rant is certainly not aimed at anyone in particular and for sure not at the one who started this thread. Just looked like a good place to unload.
 
For what it's worth, I usually ask makers for a 30-day heads up, or at least an e-mail before they actually start the knife. In light of long and variable delivery times, this acomplishes several things:

1) It allows us to revisit the details and make sure we are both still on the same page.

2) It allows for any last-minute alterations in the original plan, large or small.

3) It gives me time to get the funds together so that the maker gets paid as soon as the knife is done.

Of course makers have every right to expect prompt payment, but when delivery time stretch out beyond a year (or two, or three) this approach is more likely to actually result in prompt payment and smiles on both sides of the transaction.

Roger
 
Give Jerry McDonald a break. We don't know his side.

However, IMHO, from wudnme says, the knifemaker was OK.

Wudnme and his friend put in an order together.

Wudnme and his friend know the knives are ready. His friend picked up his knife. Wudnme, knew his knife was ready but didn't pick it up or even call.

The maker has waited a month for a reply...he calls...no reply...he waits...someone wants the knife, has the money, it's gone.

Even if wudnme called, he didn't have the money, thus the maker still could have sold the knife.

If wudnme really wanted the knife, wudnme would have been on the spot a month and a week ago when he was told. The knifemaker knew he'd been told...wudnme knew he'd been informed.


Don't throw rocks at McDonald w/o hearing his side.
 
Sounds like poor communication and a misunderstanding on each end. Trying to look at the events from both sides:

I don't understand why Wudnme waited a week to return the maker's call. And you really should have had the money set aside to pay for the knife - it had been a year, and you still needed an extension to pay? If you can't afford the item, don't order it. But I do understand that financial situations are fluid and unpredictable...

Still, it seems the maker may have jumped the gun in selling the knife. Only waiting a week, after the customer waited a year? If a customer has to wait an entire year for a knife with an unknown delivery date, there's got to be some flexibility on the other end too.

Would I re-order the knife? Probably not. It would be a sour taste, a "substitute" as you said, every time I saw the knife. Plus, I'd be a bit embarrassed about the situation and would just prefer to start from scratch with a new maker.

Would I re-make a knife for a customer who couldn't pay for the last one? Probably not. I'd be happy to sell to them at a knife show though, or offer them a knife that another customer backs out of.

Too bad for lost opportunities, I bet the two of you probably could have worked something out.


-------------------
FYI, I'm not a knifemaker; I followed this topic from another sub-forum where it had been double-posted.
 
brownshoe said:
The knifemaker knew he'd been told...wudnme knew he'd been informed.
Click to expand...

where did you pull that from. If the knifemaker is relying on a third party to relay the status of the knife, he needs to reassess his practices. What obligation does the friend have to deliver the message, what guarantee does the maker have that it has been delivered.
 
What I don't understand:
Both maker and buyer knew the knife was finished a month ago and neither communicated.

Communication is most important from both parties. I've had orders come do in the past and either had a non working email and or a wrong phone number (not the case in the above). I had no way to contact the persons who ordered and never received word from them. This is very frustrating for me.

Actually, brownshoe's post made pretty good sense.
 
"Both maker and buyer knew the knife was finished a month ago and neither communicated."

Not so, wudnme said he and his friend put in an order together. If the friend was the contact person, the maker communicated with the contact person. The failure to communicate was on wudnme. But hey, the maker contacted him directly and got no response. Maybe wudnme's friend told the maker about wudnme's financial difficulties.

Either way, wudnme didn't have the money...so the maker was lucky to get a buyer. The maker needs cash flow just like you and me.

Don't judge the maker until you hear his side of the story. Wudnme's tale can be ready different ways.

Hey monitors, doesn't this belong in the GBU like the Frazer thread?
 
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