if someone orders a knife with me i keep in constand contact with them so they know how things are going. if the knife is done, i contact the customer until i get a response. if the customer doesnt reply after several attempts to contact them then i might consider selling the knife. to tell someone it would be a year for the knife to be finished only to sell it to someone else, i would be mad also and wouldnt blame someone for not wanting to do any more business with the maker.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
In need of opinion from knifemakers.
- Thread starter wudnme
- Start date
A lot has been said in the past about knife makers and how they should run their business. I haven't read much about what makes a good customer. It could be all boiled down to the presumption that there are obligations on both sides of the order, whether or not money has changed hands. It is not fair to either if one party ignores the other or refuses to communicate preventing the transaction from being completed. If there is a problem, communication is the only answer that will resolve it. We have been very fortunate in having some of the best customers we could ask for. We have only had a few instances that resulted in us having to sell the knife to a third party and then only after months of waiting with no word. After having two or three this fall we have instituted a new policy that states on our website how we will handle a situation where the customer doesn't pay or can't be reached. We also now require at least three methods of contact and request during the order taking process that the customer contact us in the event that one of the methods of contact changes. We hope that will at the least make the customer think about the knife order should something happen. We also encourage the customer to contact us to check on the order's progress. We find that many customers think that they will be placed at the end of the list if they bother us and that couldn't be further from the truth. We don't have a lot of time to just sit and talk knives, but we do like to hear from the customers because it gives us a chance to update the customer information. Communication is the key to a good relationship and it goes both ways.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
Seems like if you made efforts to contact the customer before you started the knife - rather than when it it was complete - then this problem would be minimized. Can't get a response? Skip him and head to the next guy on the list.
Yes, I know communication is a two way street and I am not suggesting that it is the sole responsibility of the maker.
Since you raise the issue, what in your view makes a good customer?
Roger
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 251
I appreciate everyones input. I agree with Brownshoe 100% on the poor communication on both ends. Due to the holiday financial requirements of raising a family I would have liked to have waited until after Christmas for any extracurricular spending, but I would have not let the knife go had I the option. I certainly understand that he may have cashflow concerns also. Jerry is a very nice guy who makes very nice knives. He even repaired a damaged blade for me once for no charge. As of right now I still feel like he should have made sure that he actually spoke to me before pulling the trigger and let me know that it would be sold if I didn't come get it. I'm sure I'll get over it and end up back over there drooling on his knives. I was just curious as to the etiquette for this situation. I haven't bought many customs. This would have been my second one directly from the maker.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
I still think you should contact him and discuss what happened. It would be good for you to find out why he did what he did. It might prevent you from running into this kind of problem in the future.
Roger, I don't think I have ever had a business call me back, once I have committed to a purchase and ask if I really wanted to buy what ever it was. We would not assume that the customer's circumstances have changed or he doesn't want the knife, since the vast majority of customers don't change their mind. The customer would be the one that is in the best position to know that something has changed. It seems little enough to ask that the customer let us know, as soon as they can, that they would like to cancel the order. We really have no problem with a cancelation at any time, it is not knowing or being able to find out what is going on that ties us up. The last situation we want to be in is one like the one that started this thread.
To answer your question about what is a good customer, nearly all are. I do like one that places an order, provides up to date contact information, checks in with us if something changes, responds with payment on notification that the knife is ready, and provides feedback upon receiving the knife. What makes a great customer is one that calls after using the knife and lets us know how it is doing. In five years of making and selling knives full time, we have had only about five that did not fall into either the category of good or great customers. Three of those are since September, involving 4 knives.
The issue, as I see it, is the lost customer, not the fact that we have to sell a knife to someone else. We don't want a dissatisfied customer out there, and are glad to work with someone if they need more time or if they just want to cancel the order. We feel that if we can talk, the customer will be very satisfied with the resolution, we can part in good standing and maybe one day we can make them another knife. If we don't talk, we don't have the chance to address the problem, and the issue remains unresolved.
To answer your question about what is a good customer, nearly all are. I do like one that places an order, provides up to date contact information, checks in with us if something changes, responds with payment on notification that the knife is ready, and provides feedback upon receiving the knife. What makes a great customer is one that calls after using the knife and lets us know how it is doing. In five years of making and selling knives full time, we have had only about five that did not fall into either the category of good or great customers. Three of those are since September, involving 4 knives.
The issue, as I see it, is the lost customer, not the fact that we have to sell a knife to someone else. We don't want a dissatisfied customer out there, and are glad to work with someone if they need more time or if they just want to cancel the order. We feel that if we can talk, the customer will be very satisfied with the resolution, we can part in good standing and maybe one day we can make them another knife. If we don't talk, we don't have the chance to address the problem, and the issue remains unresolved.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2001
- Messages
- 788
I can only imagine what would happen to my knife business if I started calling all my customers when I start on their order............... "Mr. Smith, I am getting ready to start your knife and am just checking to see if you are going to have the money to pay for it."
Cash crunch is universal and there is no shame in it but it is the customers responsibility to call the maker and inform him if he is not able to accept the knife. Failure to do so also interrupts the makers cash flow which is a pretty fine line at best.
I still would llike to have Jerry's story here.
Cash crunch is universal and there is no shame in it but it is the customers responsibility to call the maker and inform him if he is not able to accept the knife. Failure to do so also interrupts the makers cash flow which is a pretty fine line at best.
I still would llike to have Jerry's story here.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
That was hardly my point. By making the call before you start - which you are going to make after, anyway - you not only get to confirm details (maybe the guy would prefer a different handle material now?) but you get to pre-screen the "customer has dropped off the face of the earth" problems before you commit time and resources to making the knife.
Does that not make good sense to you from a business perspective? Is it asking that much more of you than you were already prepared to do? All I'm saying is make your first post-order contact before, rather than after, completion of the knife. Just a suggestion - makes no difference to me whether you take it or not.
I'm not sure how long your delivery period is, but when things stretch into the year-and-beyond zone, makers who think the only necessary communication on their part is "Your knife is ready - pay me." are operating to their own detriment. It's all well and good to say "Well, you've had a year to find the money for this knife." - but it's not nearly that simple. Most delivery dates outside of a year are a guesstimate at best. Do you deliver to the day that you set when the order is made? If so, this probably doesn't apply to you. And it probably makes you somewhat unique among knifemakers. Variability in delivery times is the rule, rather than the exception - and this underscores the wisdom of early contact to confirm the order. Remember - a collector may have several orders out at any given time with several different makers. If each and every one delivered on the exact date forecast one or more years ago, then the collector could arrange to have funds ready on each given date. But that has not been my experience in 25 years of buying custom knives.
Two primary benefits result from your making early contact: First - you know the customer is there. Second - you give him a bit of lead time to get the funds together. This is a bad thing for you, how, exactly?
None of the makers I work with have any problem whatsoever with this method. Indeed, for quite a few of them with longer delivery times, you don't so much order a knife as order a delivery slot. When your slot comes up the maker contacts you to confirm what you want built, quotes you a price and you go from there pretty quickly to completion of the blade.
Roger
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
Instead, try:
"Mr. Smith - I am commencing work on your x knife with y handle material which you ordered on z date. It will be ready for delivery in x days / weeks. Please confirm your shipping address."
Question - if you're going to get the:
a) no response, dropped off the face of the earth;
b) I don't have the money now, but can get it in a month; or
c) I be broke, can't swing that order now or in the forseaable future,
Would you rather hear that before or after you have made the knife? If you'd rather hear it after - please explain why that would be a benefit to you.
Roger
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
I would like to hear Jerry's side of the story too, especially since the scenario wudnme initially described seemed odd to me in that their was obviously a total lack of even the most basic communication and the post was lacking pertinent information thus my questions that wudnme has not answered.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 1998
- Messages
- 4,860
When a customer places an order I give them a idea of when it would be ready. If someone ordered today their knife would be ready around the first week of Jan 08.
I always email or call a customer about a week before I start their knife that way they have time to get the funds together. It pisses me off when I finish the knife and the customer says I'm selling other knives to come up with the funds so it will be a little while. When the knife is done I expect to get paid.
Communication is Key in this business, especially returning emails!
I always email or call a customer about a week before I start their knife that way they have time to get the funds together. It pisses me off when I finish the knife and the customer says I'm selling other knives to come up with the funds so it will be a little while. When the knife is done I expect to get paid.
Communication is Key in this business, especially returning emails!
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
wudnme - speaking of eitquette - did you e-mail the maker to let him know you were discussing the situation on a public forum?
Roger
Roger, I appreciate your suggestion. We are always looking for ways to improve communications with our customers. While we have had problems getting people because they changed their e-mail or phone number, something usually works. What we are seeing more of, is people that state that they want the knife and just never send the money. They will call and check on the knife, everything is fine. We contact them and everything is fine. We let them know that the knife is nearing completion, to send the payment and everything is fine. Communicate well, right up to sending the check. They tell you the same thing the next time you talk to them and still don't pay for the knife, and the next. They just won't say "I don't want the knife." That is what caused us to adopt a policy that limits the time we will hold a knife for payment. We have no problem working with the customer if the customer wants or needs time, but tell us something.
Communications is vital, as well as respect for the person's time and money on the other side of the transaction.
Communications is vital, as well as respect for the person's time and money on the other side of the transaction.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 251
I have not talked to Him since finding out he sold my knife. That conversation ended with "Call me when the handles are going on your next batch of knives after christmas." My intentions here were more or less regarding how others have reacted to similar experiences. What should I have done, or what he should have done, WHATEVER! Hind sight is 20-20 right. I debated on mentioning names, but if by doing so others mentioned similar experiences I would then know that I was not the only one this has happened to and maybe I should deal with someone else. This has NOT been the case here so blame could fall in either direction. I thank the mods for not moving this thread, I think it is good for buyers & makers alike to put themselves in the others shoes in these situations. "Does this maker do this for income or as a hobby?I should clarify payment arangements.", "This customer seems like a nice guy who loves knives, maybe he forgot, let me give him another call before I sell this piece." etc. After reading your replies , I am pretty much over this now. I am in sales for a living and understand the situation of having a buyer in front of you with cash in hand. I will give him a call after christmas. As for mentioning names there are probably a few here who haven't heard of Jerry Mcdonald's Knives, well now you have. They are nice , check them out. Sometimes any publicity is good, right. http://www.mcdonaldknives.com
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
Well, you did inquire as to what the appropriate etiquette was for this situation. In my opinion, that would include letting the maker know you are "going public" with your dissasitfaction so that he has the opportunity, if he chooses, to give his side of the story. Particularly where you choose to NAME the maker as opposed to presenting a mere hypothetical. This isn't to suggest that you have been less than candid in your account, but my life experience to date (not to mention my work experience) suggests that there are always two sides to any story.
If your response to a suggestion of appropriate etiquette is "WHATEVER!", perhaps you should not have asked the question.
Roger
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
It never has to be worded like that. If you were to say to me, "I will be starting your knife next week. Please send payment so that it will be here by the time your knife is ready to ship. If you have any changes to your order that you would like to request, this is your last chance to do so. Please confirm your address and phone number." I would certainly not feel insulted. You are making me a knife. You deserve to get paid for your work. Customers should not get upset when they are asked to send payment for their knives.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 251
As for the "WHATEVER" you referred to. Perhaps a poor choice of words. I in no way intended that to dismiss everyones advise and input on this matter. Being a novice as far as dealing with custom makers, I certainly value and appreciate what is said and discussed here.
Sean
Sean
There are some very good points on this thread for everyone. In my experience in resolving conflicts and it is more considerable than I wish it were, I have noticed that there seem to be at least three sides to every story. There are two different versions of what the individuals thought happened and then what really happened. Only when they are willing to communicate can the third version be discovered and the misunderstanding clarified. That communication should take place and the "conflict" part would likely be avoided.
In the next few minutes I will probably talk my self out of a sale. In responding to an e-mail request, I am going to recommend to a potential customer, that he give a maker a chance to correct a problem with his knife rather than have me make a replacement. The customer has not addressed the problem with the maker yet. The maker's name would be recognized on any knife forum and the quality of his knives is well known, as is his reputation for standing behind his work. The customer paid good money for a knife that he feels is not living up to his expectations; he should not have to buy a replacement for a knife that should be doing the job. In my opinion the maker should have the chance to address the problem with his customer before another maker is brought into the situation. My recommendation is going to be for the customer to contact the maker, explain the problem, and ask to be able to return the knife so the maker can check it out.
I know that as a maker I would want to be able to address any problem with a knife or an order rather than have a dissatisfied customer out there that I didn't even know about. I think that we always need to give the individual on the other side a chance to correct a problem or at least attempt to work something out that will satisfy both parties involved.
In the next few minutes I will probably talk my self out of a sale. In responding to an e-mail request, I am going to recommend to a potential customer, that he give a maker a chance to correct a problem with his knife rather than have me make a replacement. The customer has not addressed the problem with the maker yet. The maker's name would be recognized on any knife forum and the quality of his knives is well known, as is his reputation for standing behind his work. The customer paid good money for a knife that he feels is not living up to his expectations; he should not have to buy a replacement for a knife that should be doing the job. In my opinion the maker should have the chance to address the problem with his customer before another maker is brought into the situation. My recommendation is going to be for the customer to contact the maker, explain the problem, and ask to be able to return the knife so the maker can check it out.
I know that as a maker I would want to be able to address any problem with a knife or an order rather than have a dissatisfied customer out there that I didn't even know about. I think that we always need to give the individual on the other side a chance to correct a problem or at least attempt to work something out that will satisfy both parties involved.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2001
- Messages
- 788
Keith,
That is basically my standard notification to the customer. Most of the time it is good but sometimes you send this and then follow up with another when no reply has been sent. After another week and no reply the knife is put up for sale. I lost a very good customer this year. I had contacted him by phone on several occasions and gotten promises. He only lived 20 miles away. After much frustration I sold all five knives he had ordered. When He came to pick up his order you should have seen the look on his face when I told him they were gone. He had intended them for gifts. I for one don't need this sort of grief.