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I'm no expert on micarta, so I'll just post these pics. If I had to guess I would say they're canvas, but here you go:
Yours is on the Right:
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In Search of the Best Busse
- Thread starter Balislinger
- Start date
I'm no expert on micarta, so I'll just post these pics. If I had to guess I would say they're canvas, but here you go:
Yours is on the Right:
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I think that's going to look and feel great Joules. Please post a thread when you're done, I'd love to see how it looks as well as hear if you did it or had someone do it.
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My flat grind custom SFNO comes in at .20" blade thickness. The old Sabers as well as the SFNOLE all come out to .22". The fatty comes in at .26"
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Steel Heart or Steel Heart II?
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In the sale thread he only had it listed as "BBSHSH" so I am not sure.
Nice blade though.
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OK, here's a pic of the current Champ!
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George, if I'm not mistaken, the BBSHSH is an SHII.
Joules, I came to the same conclusion the first time I ever saw the LE. I'm just not a fan I the slabs on the thing for use. I will be going with Machined mags as well. Now to decide whether to keep on factory-fresh, or just sell my extra after magging the user.
Joules, I came to the same conclusion the first time I ever saw the LE. I'm just not a fan I the slabs on the thing for use. I will be going with Machined mags as well. Now to decide whether to keep on factory-fresh, or just sell my extra after magging the user.
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I'm gonna say those old slabs look like they're linen. They don't seem to be as fibrous as canvas slabs often look. George, can you do me another favor and post pics of the older machined mags and a newer set of machined mags (if you have them both)?
Thanks, brother.
Thanks, brother.
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Its my extra limited edition smooth bolt shsfno. Lol. Really its a oldie. A. Bb shsh that has been double cut by Busse and a Fat one at .310 of the 7" blade variety
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A few new knives came in, and I want to continue the comparison. For those just catching up on this saga, the Saber SFNOLE deposed the previous champ, which had been sitting on the throne for quite a while, knocking down challengers left and right. The previous champ, a custom SFNO with stabilized wood handles and a satin custom-shop blade, seemed impervious to attack, until the LE came along. In the wake of that upset, the LE has been settling in as the new king of the roost. But he shouldn't get too comfortable, as there are some very worthy challengers on the way. Perhaps the stiffest competition yet for any of these winners.
The first new challenger is a tan/DC old school saber with mags. The old school machined mags, with their deep recesses, make micarta look great. I like these handle slabs in tan, better than the micarta on the LE, so this one wins on the handle slabs. The DC blade, however, lacks a spark, and class. It's just, well, kind of plain. Especially compared to the nice satin blade of the LE, in saber grind, with the unique custom shop logo and numbered edition marking. I know, it was tough going from the start putting a CG blade up against a custom shop limited edition, but hey, they like to try. Overall, the total package of the LE beats out this tan/DC challenger.
The first new challenger is a tan/DC old school saber with mags. The old school machined mags, with their deep recesses, make micarta look great. I like these handle slabs in tan, better than the micarta on the LE, so this one wins on the handle slabs. The DC blade, however, lacks a spark, and class. It's just, well, kind of plain. Especially compared to the nice satin blade of the LE, in saber grind, with the unique custom shop logo and numbered edition marking. I know, it was tough going from the start putting a CG blade up against a custom shop limited edition, but hey, they like to try. Overall, the total package of the LE beats out this tan/DC challenger.
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The next knife to try is a DC old-school saber in black LINEN micarta. A rare bird indeed, and a nice combo. It has the same DC blade as the tan knife above, bur for some reason I like the blade shape and total look of the blade better on this piece. The blade is somewhat distinctive, as much as a plain DC blade can be. The slabs are indeed nice, but actually, I prefer the tan canvas in look and feel. What this package has going for it is the color combo between the DC gray and the black handles. That combo looks great together. For similar reasons to the DC/tan, this one just doesn't reach to the level of the LE, although it is a great knife in and of itself.
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I'll take either of those two...especially the bottom. Thanks. PM sent with shipping info. :thumbup:
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Lol, I've got so many darn SFNOs around here, I can't keep 'em straight! That tan/DC Saber I just reviewed came in a while back, and already got a shot at the title. The knife I meant to be looking at is a newly arrived DC/tigerhide Saber SFNO.
First of all, let me say that this knife is an awesome package. But we're debating the finer points at this stage, and the crown is not easily won, so we have to be nit-picky. The blade on this knife is your standard DC blade, so again, not alot going on compared to the satin custom shop blade on the LE. The slabs on this one, while nice, because they are machined tigerhide mags, aren't as nice as the ones on the satin tigerhide saber reviewed earlier in the thread. For one, the slabs on the satin/tigerhide are deeper and richer in color. That may be from use, and skin oils penetrating the micarta, but it makes them look better. This one is mint, so the scales are dry, and don't have skin oils in them. That leaves them looking less "rich." The other thing, which I also thought was interesting, is that the slabs on this knife are shorter in height than the tigerhide slabs on the other saber. If you were to measure the slabs top to bottom (not from butt to tang), you would find that the other mags are bigger slabs. These seem narrow in comparison, and thus have a less "beefy" look.
This knife did not offer the leader much of a competition, but as a plus, it did come with a nice original Buy Brown kydex sheath.
First of all, let me say that this knife is an awesome package. But we're debating the finer points at this stage, and the crown is not easily won, so we have to be nit-picky. The blade on this knife is your standard DC blade, so again, not alot going on compared to the satin custom shop blade on the LE. The slabs on this one, while nice, because they are machined tigerhide mags, aren't as nice as the ones on the satin tigerhide saber reviewed earlier in the thread. For one, the slabs on the satin/tigerhide are deeper and richer in color. That may be from use, and skin oils penetrating the micarta, but it makes them look better. This one is mint, so the scales are dry, and don't have skin oils in them. That leaves them looking less "rich." The other thing, which I also thought was interesting, is that the slabs on this knife are shorter in height than the tigerhide slabs on the other saber. If you were to measure the slabs top to bottom (not from butt to tang), you would find that the other mags are bigger slabs. These seem narrow in comparison, and thus have a less "beefy" look.
This knife did not offer the leader much of a competition, but as a plus, it did come with a nice original Buy Brown kydex sheath.
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OK, now for some competition the leader hasn't seen in while. This challenger comes from a totally different country, has an old-school philosophy, and has the potential to really shake things up. We just don't know how a modern SFNO would stack up to one of the old-school knives, like a SHSHII in A2.
This guy came in a really nice original dangler kydex sheath w/ leg loop. The old-school look is awesome. The knife screams vintage much more than the SFNO, and "old-school" and "vintage" here are a good thing. This knife has a polished spine, which is a really nice effect, and gives the knife a bit of something different, and some extra class, so it's not a totally black blade. Also, the polished spine mirrors the edge, and gives the blade a subtle and nice two-tone effect.
The black coating on this blade is really sweet. It's extremely smooth, and very hard. It's about the furthest thing from crinkle. It reminds me of a modern gun-kote or DLC finish. The micarta feels really good in the hand. The handle shape is well thought out, and fairly ergonomic. My only complaint in that the slabs could swell the palm more; they are pretty straight down the sides.
The old-school micarta slabs look awesome though, and have lot of character. I wonder what makes these old-school micarta slabs look the way they do. Was the micarta just different back then? It almost looks like a subtle two-tone green and black canvas micarta, or black with some tan mixed in, but I suspect they are just black. The black is not uniform though, much like a distressed or antiqued finish on leather, or custom washed denim, there's a "distressed" look to the handles, eve as they also appear brand new. The micarta is also very smooth, which one doesn't really expect by looking at them. Their character would appear to give them more texture, but on the hand they are smooth.
The slotted screws offer a nice look.
The balance of this knife is amazing, and one of my favorite things about it. The knife is weighted more towards the blade than the SFNOLE, but not so much as to be off kilter. In fact, the balance is so good, one might not even notice the blade-heaviness. The knife still feels very maneuverable and light, despite it's increased length and slightly more heft over the SFNO.
I would say the weight is just about right. It goes right up to the edge of heaviness for me. A little more, and I wouldn't want to carry it, but the extra weight makes it a better chopper.
Overall, this is a truly great knife. It's simplicity belies its sophistication in the thoughtful details that truly matter in a great camp knife: Weight, balance, length, and ergonomics are all expertly designed, but not obviously so. This is a nice you have to hold to appreciate. Only a great maker can get all these subtle aspects right and put them in one package. Congrats to Jerry for a truly impressive camp knife.
Now, you may be thinking, with all these good things to say about the SHSH II, how does it stack up to our current champ?
Well, although the old-school SHSH micarta slabs look WAAYYY better than the new tigerhide, and though they feel great in their texture, the ergonomics of the SFNOLE handle beats them out for comfort. The SFNOLE mags swell the palm more, and provide more indented room for fingers to curl into the handle.
The SFNOLE is also expertly designed, with the initial thumb ramp in the perfect place, the overall balance and execution of the knife, and the size of the handle, all clearly done from knowledge and experience. The SFNOLE seems slightly less useful as a camp knife, relative to the slight blade-heaviness of the SHSH and the SHSH's longer blade. See the SFNOLE's blade is taller, spine to edge, while the SHSH's blade is shorter. This allows the SHSH more blade length without too much added weight.
Both knives have exquisite balance, but the SFNO is tilted more toward everyday use, as it is more maneuverable, while the SHSH makes a better chopper, but sacrifices some precise delicate cutting ability.
In terms of blade beauty, the SFNOLE takes the cake. Again, the classy custom shop script and logo, with the numbers, the satin finish on a saber grind, is a much classier blade than plain black.
As a total package, the SHSH is a great camp knife, but understated in its looks, and does not have much excitement about it. One would need to hold it, and know knives, to appreciate its mastery. To most folks, it looks like an ordinary dull camp knife. The SHSH is also a tad heavier overall than I prefer. My hand and arm get tired more quickly maneuvering the SHSH than they do the SFNO. In addition to being lighter, the SFNO has its balance point closer to the tang.
The SHSH handle cocoons my hand nicely between the front and rear guards. Holding the knife, I can spread my fingers out and still grip the knife by putting pressure on the two guards. The SFNO handle is more spread out, longer, and the guards don't secure my hand as well as the SHSH.
As an overall package, the SFNOLE beats out the SHSH II. It's because of the nicer custom shop satin blade, the slight lighter weight, and the ergonomics of the fuller mag handles.
A good challenge from an old-school contender, but the SFNOLE lives on as the best Busse knife (for me).
This guy came in a really nice original dangler kydex sheath w/ leg loop. The old-school look is awesome. The knife screams vintage much more than the SFNO, and "old-school" and "vintage" here are a good thing. This knife has a polished spine, which is a really nice effect, and gives the knife a bit of something different, and some extra class, so it's not a totally black blade. Also, the polished spine mirrors the edge, and gives the blade a subtle and nice two-tone effect.
The black coating on this blade is really sweet. It's extremely smooth, and very hard. It's about the furthest thing from crinkle. It reminds me of a modern gun-kote or DLC finish. The micarta feels really good in the hand. The handle shape is well thought out, and fairly ergonomic. My only complaint in that the slabs could swell the palm more; they are pretty straight down the sides.
The old-school micarta slabs look awesome though, and have lot of character. I wonder what makes these old-school micarta slabs look the way they do. Was the micarta just different back then? It almost looks like a subtle two-tone green and black canvas micarta, or black with some tan mixed in, but I suspect they are just black. The black is not uniform though, much like a distressed or antiqued finish on leather, or custom washed denim, there's a "distressed" look to the handles, eve as they also appear brand new. The micarta is also very smooth, which one doesn't really expect by looking at them. Their character would appear to give them more texture, but on the hand they are smooth.
The slotted screws offer a nice look.
The balance of this knife is amazing, and one of my favorite things about it. The knife is weighted more towards the blade than the SFNOLE, but not so much as to be off kilter. In fact, the balance is so good, one might not even notice the blade-heaviness. The knife still feels very maneuverable and light, despite it's increased length and slightly more heft over the SFNO.
I would say the weight is just about right. It goes right up to the edge of heaviness for me. A little more, and I wouldn't want to carry it, but the extra weight makes it a better chopper.
Overall, this is a truly great knife. It's simplicity belies its sophistication in the thoughtful details that truly matter in a great camp knife: Weight, balance, length, and ergonomics are all expertly designed, but not obviously so. This is a nice you have to hold to appreciate. Only a great maker can get all these subtle aspects right and put them in one package. Congrats to Jerry for a truly impressive camp knife.
Now, you may be thinking, with all these good things to say about the SHSH II, how does it stack up to our current champ?
Well, although the old-school SHSH micarta slabs look WAAYYY better than the new tigerhide, and though they feel great in their texture, the ergonomics of the SFNOLE handle beats them out for comfort. The SFNOLE mags swell the palm more, and provide more indented room for fingers to curl into the handle.
The SFNOLE is also expertly designed, with the initial thumb ramp in the perfect place, the overall balance and execution of the knife, and the size of the handle, all clearly done from knowledge and experience. The SFNOLE seems slightly less useful as a camp knife, relative to the slight blade-heaviness of the SHSH and the SHSH's longer blade. See the SFNOLE's blade is taller, spine to edge, while the SHSH's blade is shorter. This allows the SHSH more blade length without too much added weight.
Both knives have exquisite balance, but the SFNO is tilted more toward everyday use, as it is more maneuverable, while the SHSH makes a better chopper, but sacrifices some precise delicate cutting ability.
In terms of blade beauty, the SFNOLE takes the cake. Again, the classy custom shop script and logo, with the numbers, the satin finish on a saber grind, is a much classier blade than plain black.
As a total package, the SHSH is a great camp knife, but understated in its looks, and does not have much excitement about it. One would need to hold it, and know knives, to appreciate its mastery. To most folks, it looks like an ordinary dull camp knife. The SHSH is also a tad heavier overall than I prefer. My hand and arm get tired more quickly maneuvering the SHSH than they do the SFNO. In addition to being lighter, the SFNO has its balance point closer to the tang.
The SHSH handle cocoons my hand nicely between the front and rear guards. Holding the knife, I can spread my fingers out and still grip the knife by putting pressure on the two guards. The SFNO handle is more spread out, longer, and the guards don't secure my hand as well as the SHSH.
As an overall package, the SFNOLE beats out the SHSH II. It's because of the nicer custom shop satin blade, the slight lighter weight, and the ergonomics of the fuller mag handles.
A good challenge from an old-school contender, but the SFNOLE lives on as the best Busse knife (for me).
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Another fierce challenger lands in the stable. This is the fight before the championship bout. The competition is stiff. The SFNOLE has risen through the ranks, but will it hold?
Today's challenger is a rare ZTSJ, the Zero Tolerance Satin Jack. 100 of these were made, back in June of 2001. It comes with a factory zero-bevel convex grind, blades stock is .25" thick (thicker then the ZTBM or the ZTNOE), and the blade is finished in an even satin finish. The handles slabs are rope-cut tan canvas micarta. This one comes with a nice black custom sheath made by Xaman.
The ZTSJ feels nice in the hand. The rope-cut micarta provides nice grip without being too aggressive, and the knife has nice balance. It's in the style of a boot knife, so in that way, it's a different knife than the SFNO.
The blade is very nice, and the grind is just superb and beautiful. The 2/3rds grind with swedge grind is a great design, and gives the knife a unique, strong, and classy look to it. The lettering "Zero Tolerance SJ" is clear on the blade, and adds a cool factor. Overall, the design symmetry of this knife is near perfect.
My only complaint is the use of brass tubes on the slabs. The color of the brass doesn't really match the overall color scheme, and seems a little out of place. Stainless or silver-colored tubes would have matched the blade better, and have provided more consistency of design throughout the knife.
The thickness is great. 1/4" stock is pretty thick, and on this knife it's perfect. It adds just the right amount of heft and weight to a small knife. I say small, although the knife is 11.5" overall and the blade is 6.5" long. The thinness of the boot-knife style makes it seem smallish compared to thicker knives with the same length.
These tan micarta slabs have alot of character to them. It must be the rope-cut, which really brings out the best of the two-tone color variation in the canvas micarta. Wish Busse still made rope-cut scales, it's a classy way to dress up machined micarta.
The edge is something really special about this knife. How many Busse's have come from the factory with a zero-bevel convex grind? Some, but not too many, I would guess. The edge on this thing is a thing of beauty, much like the work Ban does with convex grinds and edges.
Overall, this is a really nice older-type Busse knife. It is pretty to look at, and has good balance. It has a slimness which makes it an effective cutter, and easy to maneuver, say, for skinning, but enough blade thickness to be hefty, and a hard-use duty knife. Interesting combination.
+1 for the feel of the rope-cut slabs, the look of the knife, and the character of the tan micarta. +1 again for the blade geometry and grind style.
How does it compare to the SFNOLE?
Well, the SFNO is a different knife. It's a little heftier, and slightly more blade-heavy. The ZTSJ seems more like a street knife, whereas the SFNO is a smallish camp knife. While the ZT has good balance, the SFNO is near perfect in that regard, and the mag slabs on the SFNO swell the palm better than the thinner scales on the ZT.
The ZT is nice to look at, but I wouldn't want to take it camping. Overall, I like the package of the SFNOLE better. The boot-style thinness of the ZT is not as classic a fixed-blade look as the SFNO. I like the added palm swells of the SF handle, the greater blade area of the SFNO, and the overwhelming near-perfect symmetry of the entire SFNO package, including blade and handle proportions etc.
So the LE wins again. It was close, and the ZT certainly held its own. It was more of a judgment decision than a knock-out. The SFNOLE has been challenged, and some of its flaws exposed, but it is still holding its own atop the pile.
Today's challenger is a rare ZTSJ, the Zero Tolerance Satin Jack. 100 of these were made, back in June of 2001. It comes with a factory zero-bevel convex grind, blades stock is .25" thick (thicker then the ZTBM or the ZTNOE), and the blade is finished in an even satin finish. The handles slabs are rope-cut tan canvas micarta. This one comes with a nice black custom sheath made by Xaman.
The ZTSJ feels nice in the hand. The rope-cut micarta provides nice grip without being too aggressive, and the knife has nice balance. It's in the style of a boot knife, so in that way, it's a different knife than the SFNO.
The blade is very nice, and the grind is just superb and beautiful. The 2/3rds grind with swedge grind is a great design, and gives the knife a unique, strong, and classy look to it. The lettering "Zero Tolerance SJ" is clear on the blade, and adds a cool factor. Overall, the design symmetry of this knife is near perfect.
My only complaint is the use of brass tubes on the slabs. The color of the brass doesn't really match the overall color scheme, and seems a little out of place. Stainless or silver-colored tubes would have matched the blade better, and have provided more consistency of design throughout the knife.
The thickness is great. 1/4" stock is pretty thick, and on this knife it's perfect. It adds just the right amount of heft and weight to a small knife. I say small, although the knife is 11.5" overall and the blade is 6.5" long. The thinness of the boot-knife style makes it seem smallish compared to thicker knives with the same length.
These tan micarta slabs have alot of character to them. It must be the rope-cut, which really brings out the best of the two-tone color variation in the canvas micarta. Wish Busse still made rope-cut scales, it's a classy way to dress up machined micarta.
The edge is something really special about this knife. How many Busse's have come from the factory with a zero-bevel convex grind? Some, but not too many, I would guess. The edge on this thing is a thing of beauty, much like the work Ban does with convex grinds and edges.
Overall, this is a really nice older-type Busse knife. It is pretty to look at, and has good balance. It has a slimness which makes it an effective cutter, and easy to maneuver, say, for skinning, but enough blade thickness to be hefty, and a hard-use duty knife. Interesting combination.
+1 for the feel of the rope-cut slabs, the look of the knife, and the character of the tan micarta. +1 again for the blade geometry and grind style.
How does it compare to the SFNOLE?
Well, the SFNO is a different knife. It's a little heftier, and slightly more blade-heavy. The ZTSJ seems more like a street knife, whereas the SFNO is a smallish camp knife. While the ZT has good balance, the SFNO is near perfect in that regard, and the mag slabs on the SFNO swell the palm better than the thinner scales on the ZT.
The ZT is nice to look at, but I wouldn't want to take it camping. Overall, I like the package of the SFNOLE better. The boot-style thinness of the ZT is not as classic a fixed-blade look as the SFNO. I like the added palm swells of the SF handle, the greater blade area of the SFNO, and the overwhelming near-perfect symmetry of the entire SFNO package, including blade and handle proportions etc.
So the LE wins again. It was close, and the ZT certainly held its own. It was more of a judgment decision than a knock-out. The SFNOLE has been challenged, and some of its flaws exposed, but it is still holding its own atop the pile.
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Prepare for a Championship Bout . . . .
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my humble opinion there are no knives made today as nice as the GRAIL KNIVES they were truly custom knives Made by the Master himself, once you have handled a SHBA,BBSHSH,SHSHII,SHBM you will never go back,the newer knives just do not feel good in these hands here
so snag a Older Grail and know you have a the BEST
so snag a Older Grail and know you have a the BEST