In the market for a hand-forged axe, but does this look "hand forged" to you?

[Yankee Josh]

Hi Yankee Josh! This is good, I learned something new! I had never heard the term "overlaid or inlaid, forge welded bit" but it would appear there are at least a couple different way to make an axe head. As to which is "better" that appears to still be up for debate (from what I've read online it sounds like forge welding the edge is considered more traditional."

So am I correct that, to your eye, all of these axes appear to be forge welded? Good to know...

No sorry I wasn't referring to the axes you pictured. Here's a photo of an easily identified overlaid or over-coat bit;

This is a hatchet but the idea is the same. I really can't comment on the ones you pictured. With newer made items and in fact most of the older axes, even if they had an overlaid bit, they aren't that easy to spot. In my opinion it's pretty hard to judge much of anything by looking at a couple photos online.(unless it's construction is obvious like the one I just pictured). I like how curious you seem to be. You've come to a good place even if one of the folks posting in this particular thread is acting like a jackass. That usually doesn't happen...
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Square_peg]

Those are some great witness accounts,Josh's in regards to S&N and crbnSteeladdict's Plumb stories...Thank you both,that's excellent info...

Some really interesting thoughts here...just how hands-on Any forging can get?

Just for the record,steel itself(especially the higher-alloy stuff)doesn't like to be messed about with uncertainly...Pecked at,with too little force to accomplish much on any one heat...
Steel likes Authority.Once it's to heat,it's great if all the deformation can be accomplished right then,so excess of power is very good.
Large factory equipment is designed around that very thing,at least in part.
Pressure transforms into T,so the more pressure the longer any given heat lasts,forging maintains it's temp....It's really sweet when it's happening,and again-the steel Likes that.

Long ago,when steel itself was made by hand,still the principle remained.And it was advantageous to get as many guys on those sledges as you could round up...till water-driven wheels came along et c....
But that hand-made steel was very dirty,full of inclusions,and those didn't particularly like to be overworked either...quite apart from the crystalline lattice issues,the silicate inclusions suffered and were opening up and propagating,your iron "brooming out" as they said...
So the name of the game Always was Expediency.
Get it Hot and hit it HARD.

All good stuff, Jake, as usual.

And it's important to remember that the hammering itself creates heat. My buddy used to show off how quickly he could produce red heat with just the force of his power hammer. But I think it's even more impressive when you see it done by hand hammering alone as in this video.

 

[jake pogg]

Hey,thanks for that-great little video!...(and a Super quote from WBY

Nit-picky of me,but I want to object to the explanation of "...molecules getting packed closer together"-i don't think you can do that!...I (think...)what the gent means is so-called Dislocations forming,those imperfections in the crystalline lattice(what we also call "work-hardening"),and steel looses conductivity,no longer transmitting energy effectively enough...
But these are just semantics!

 

[Square_peg]

You're welcome. My buddy's point was that if you work quickly a heat lasts a long time because you're actually maintaining it with the work.

 

[Jackie Dengler]

Hello Jake! Thanks for the reply, and I appreciate the questions. I also acknowledge your overall point that the term "hand-forging" can mean a whole spectrum of different things, from the single guy/gal who is forging their own steel for their creations all the way to the individual who simply hand-finishes factory-made blanks. So yes, the term is inadequate, but let me explain my intention:

Bottom line, I simply want to know from more experienced members if the items he is describing on his webpage, in the context in which they are presented, appear to be accurate.

For example, the name "Ancient Smithy," the pictures of a small family forge, his profile stating he is a "maker of fine things... student of ancient and dying arts... no blade or tool is the same... etc., and the item descriptions stating they are "handmade" and "custom made and ready for shipment in 1-3 days" all are designed to give the buyer the impression that this is a guy sitting at his forge making all of this by hand and, in turn, the item you will be receiving will be unique and not completely identical to hundreds of others before it.

However, when I consider the incredible uniformity to the items he sells, the wide selection of items he sells, the fit and finish of the items, the fact that identical items appear to be sold on other websites, and, most of all, the price point of the items it all suggests to me, an admittedly ignorant and unseasoned newbie, that these are, in fact, machine-made in a factory.

Now, I don't mean that to be an insult to him and I'm not trying to bad-mouth him or the items he sells. In fact, they may very well be incredible quality and worth every penny he charges. Further still, I may be completely wrong and he (or his team) might very well be sitting at his forge in the Ukraine creating each one of these items by hand. But I just want to know if the context in which they are being presented is accurate, or am I actually buying a "hand-finished" (whatever that means) factory made-in-china item.

So yes, "hand forged" as a term carries a lot of baggage and ambiguity, but there is nothing ambiguous about the context in which he is presenting his items on his webpage. Does anyone know if that context is accurate? Do the items, to your seasoned eyes, look like they have the same level of "hand forge-ness" that you would expect given how they are described?

Thanks to everyone for chiming in!

Idk if you can help me find the best handmade axe out there.. Viking axe. Can you please read my message on the forum axes , tomohawk and knives I think . Thank you Jackie Dengler

 

[Jackie Dengler]

Long time ago H.L.Mencken said something like this:"There's just about everything wrong with Capitalism.Unfortunately it is the only thing we have".

I think in at least a certain way this is what we often deal with on here.
There was a time 150+ years ago where the cultural/economic conditions combined to engender this Renaissance of tool-making in US...Tons of companies competing,pushing the development of technologies ahead at unprecedented rate...
Then,gradually,the very use of the tools themselves began to wane...More and more rapidly as Information Age was catching up with everyone.
Eventually it wasn't even worth anyone's time,in developed countries,to be producing any of these tools at all,production being shuffled off onto less advanced economies.
In that process even the knowledge of the Use of tools faded,becoming increasingly obscure...Which has resulted in many a romanticised notion concerning tools,their history,manufacture,everything...
Meanwhile,those less developed places were very keen to play at this cool new toy,the Free-Market Economics and all that,and were happy to respond with products that were Desired,as that desire became more and more vague,obscure,hazy...
Comic books and TV and Hollywoodised history influencing the lack of practical knowledge further,making people's tastes` and notions about hand-tools curiouser and curiouser...

Years ago when i still maintained connections with the collectors and axe-fanciers of Mordor i remember how one well to do and respected collector has ordered himself a Mammen axe from India!....(was very much satisfied with the product too).

I'll come to the point,i don't mean to just waste everyone's time here with mad ramblings...and it is this:Here is one of the places where we gather to keep the record straight.
To separate the wheat from the chaff,to preserve what is often a very unique,and important,data,that is rapidly dissolving and disappearing nowadays.
As a result we do at times develop rather categorical opinions,and possibly can at times rub someone wrong...happens...(and i'm heartily sorry for that).
But all in all,i believe that we're doing a Corker job of it here,and Do manage to get along,and really,do ok...
and what we do Us indeed a very valid,important chore,that is already appreciated by many(myself first and foremost),and in the future promises to become even more valuable.

Can you please read my message by Jackie Dengler