In your opinion, who competes with ZT?

[Mo2]

d probably say their main competitor is Kizer, if you consider their market segment to be flippers in the $150-$250 range. They have a ton in common - focus on titanium framelocks, heavy reliance on collaboration knives, etc.

def not. i would NEVER compare or even cross shop the two. Kizer has been known for poor qc, they have not got to the WE/REATE/RIKE territory of excellence yet. they also dont make any models even close to ZT in appearance. the only thing they have going together is they both produce several flippers. kizers prices have increased without increasing quality also, i dont even know why, unless its due to paying knife makers more for the name. in any case a $200 keizer is no where near a $200 ZT in any respect.

 

[Lapedog]

The Taichung Spydercos are not as nicely made as the ZTs of equivalent price. Spyderco's value proposition is really found in the sub $200 range.

Honestly I think the Taichung Spydercos are some of the best out there.

 

[McFeeli]

The Taichung Spydercos are not as nicely made as the ZTs of equivalent price. Spyderco's value proposition is really found in the sub $200 range.

I would consider that a plus. If you can put out an incredible knife using top notch materials for under $200, that's amazing! ZT's rarely sell for under $200 new, and on many occasions Spyderco's steel is superior while still staying under $200.

I consider Taichung to have some of the best fit and finish out of every production company out there, at very least on par with ZT in that respect.

 

[austonh]

Apparently I do a poor job of making a point. Therefore; a $300-$400 Spyderco, is not as well made as a $300-$400 ZT.

As for Rike, they make cool knives but I don't know of any Warranty support should something go wrong.

 

[PURPLEDC]

def not. i would NEVER compare or even cross shop the two. Kizer has been known for poor qc, they have not got to the WE/REATE/RIKE territory of excellence yet. they also dont make any models even close to ZT in appearance. the only thing they have going together is they both produce several flippers. kizers prices have increased without increasing quality also, i dont even know why, unless its due to paying knife makers more for the name. in any case a $200 keizer is no where near a $200 ZT in any respect.

Totally agree. Even the materials they sort

Honestly I think the Taichung Spydercos are some ofnthe best out there.

Yeah every Taichung spydie i have had walked circles around a ZT in regards to fit finish. Now ive had more ZT knives with good flipping action but i think that is just because zt makes more flippers. If comparing zt to spyderco the real area i think zt falls short is their dumbing down of designs. Spyderco makes a virtual copy of the custom they are modeling the knife after. Zt imho many times will make the same knife over and over and only the outline seems to change. I sorta miss the days when zt and before it made every knife unique. What they do they do well. But im just not a fan i guess.

 

[BD_01]

The budget offerings from WE are $100... It would be impossible for ZT to make money on the 0920 and 0055 if they were below what they're selling and going to sell for.

Agreed. Perhaps my point was lost. I said, "The 0920 and (soon) 0055 are priced below all but the budget WE offerings...." Then again, it's possible I misunderstod your reply --the internet can be funny that way-- but it's all good!

My point was that as per BHQ, the non-budget WE's begin around $250. The 0920 lists on their site for $240 and the 0055 is expected at $220. I would say that's favorable comparison.

I didn't know one could shop around and beat WE's MAP. I'll keep that in mind if/when cash flow improves. As for Kizer, I am far from an expert. The one's I've handled haven't been up to par with ZT IMO. Their budget line Vanguards have really impressed me for the price point, but aren't in the ZT league.

 

[Hackenslash]

Spyderco beats it in steel types, lock types, size ranges, handle materials, opening methods, blade shapes and IMO bang for your buck too

I would agree that Spyderco offers more, different options than ZT, but in ZT's playing field of Titanium Framelock Flippers they come in well behind. The question was "who competes with ZT" not "who competes with Spyderco".

 

[McFeeli]

Apparently I do a poor job of making a point. Therefore; a $300-$400 Spyderco, is not as well made as a $300-$400 ZT.

I see what you're trying to say, but definitely can't agree with it. I respect your perspective, we're all different, but I'd still have to say even at the $300-$400 mark ZT's aren't inherently better than a Spyderco(luckily for me there isn't a ton of Spydies at that price anyway), at the same price point.

I'm not trying to single you out or anything, like I said we're all different, though I do get a bit protective over my Taichung Spydies, haha.

 

[Mo2]

id rather buy a ZT hinderer than a Hinderer. if that makes sense. but ZT do, do it better.

 

[Hackenslash]

def not. i would NEVER compare or even cross shop the two. Kizer has been known for poor qc, they have not got to the WE/REATE/RIKE territory of excellence yet. they also dont make any models even close to ZT in appearance. the only thing they have going together is they both produce several flippers. kizers prices have increased without increasing quality also, i dont even know why, unless its due to paying knife makers more for the name. in any case a $200 keizer is no where near a $200 ZT in any respect.

I disagree, I think in many ways Kizer and ZT compare favorably. The "Kizer has been known for poor qc" rap is a relatively recent phenomena, one which Kizer seems to be aggressively trying to fix. I also think that people who are unhappy with a knife will always make a disproportionate amount of noise. I admit that I'm a Kizer fan boy. The number of times you echo the Kizer/poor QC story make me wonder about your innate stance on the company?

I see a lot of synergies between both companies. Appearance shouldn't really come into play; Kizer and ZT use a completely different stable of designers. ZT is heavy on Hinderer, Sinkevich, Rexford and George and Kizer is heavy with Pinkerton, Cuchiara, Laconico and Vagnino. That will lead to a divergence of styles and appearances.

From where I sit, I think both companies are ripe to be compared. They both focus on Titanium framelock flippers. ZT has incrementally better fit and finish, Kizer has lower prices. That makes a fair point of comparison and competition. The ability to find Kizer sold without MAP pricing compensates to a large extent for their lower level of quality and F/F. The classic "you get what you pay for". When Kizer gets it right they present a value that attacks directly at the lower priced models in the ZT line.

In many ways it's interesting to compare Kizer to KAI, not just to ZT. The in-house and Vanguard Kizers compare favorably with US made Kershaws in a similar price range, in fact they'll consistently beat the Kershaws. The Bladesmith Kizers compare favorable with the rank and file ZTs, although the Kizers are a notch down in quality and price.

 

[Mo2]

I disagree, I think in many ways Kizer and ZT compare favorably. The "Kizer has been known for poor qc" rap is a relatively recent phenomena, one which Kizer seems to be aggressively trying to fix. I also think that people who are unhappy with a knife will always make a disproportionate amount of noise. I admit that I'm a Kizer fan boy. The number of times you echo the Kizer/poor QC story make me wonder about your innate stance on the company?

not recent to me.

 

[scottyj]

id rather buy a ZT hinderer than a Hinderer. if that makes sense. but ZT do, do it better.

Or a ZT Emerson........

 

[PURPLEDC]

not recent to me.

Nor I. I got a flashbang skully when they first came out. I returned it five minutes after opening the package.

 

[Phixt]

WE 702, integral at 295 and the gold ti , g10, 0452 at 240 compare very well. The WE is a bit heavier, slimmer through the handle, better grip on the ZT imo. Both lock up solid, flip quickly, centering perfect, no blade play, flawless fit and finish, top materials. For looks, I like the WE a bit more, for feel in hand , blade shape the ZT wins

We and reate. Reate is a little less on the bang for the buck. But i think they make a superior product that justifies the extra cost.

For me, it would have to be WE.
Both are some of the best flippers, both use similar materials and F&F is superb on both.
Joe

WE was my initial thought.

609E

I see a lot o WE I'm curious how their support after a sale is?

Good question, I dunno.

 

[tyyreaun]

def not. i would NEVER compare or even cross shop the two. Kizer has been known for poor qc, they have not got to the WE/REATE/RIKE territory of excellence yet. they also dont make any models even close to ZT in appearance. the only thing they have going together is they both produce several flippers. kizers prices have increased without increasing quality also, i dont even know why, unless its due to paying knife makers more for the name. in any case a $200 keizer is no where near a $200 ZT in any respect.

I don't know if you've tried Kizer recently, but I'd definitely consider their more recent (last ~6 months) collaboration knives in the $150+ range comparable to ZT. I've handled great knives from both companies, and I've also seen QC fails from both companies. ZT may have the upper hand there as far as warranties go, but if you have good examples of both, Kizer's build quality and action are comparable.

ZTs run $140-$240 for most of their knives (with a few exceptions). We/Rike/Reate start at $250 for most knives (again, with a few exceptions). You may consider them on the same level (anti-China bias, maybe?), but I certainly doubt their respective marketing departments think that - if they do, there's a definite pricing decision fail somewhere in there.

More importantly, I don't think the typical knife buyer (the type who's not posting on knife forums in the middle of the work day) consider them similar. ZTs are what they buy when they want a good affordable flipper. We/Rike/Reate are more for people that want something a bit different and "unique", and are willing to pay extra for a knife that's likely not gonna look like what their neighbor/friend/co-worker uses. I would expect that a much higher percentage of ZTs are subject to hard use than We/Rike/Reate.

 

[AF]

I think ZT offers the best value for a ti framelock flipper on bearings. I got the 0920 recently and it's very impressive. It has a neutral balance thanks to the handle milling. Flips great. Clip works well. Cutting geometry isn't bad.
Spyderco needs to repair their reputation for flippers following on the Advocate. For non-flippers Spyderco is my number one.
WE looks to be putting out some high quality stuff. I only have one of their budget knives but it's very nice for the money. Despite their large lineup I can't find many designs that appeal to me. Their integral model is one that has caught my eye.
I've owned a number of Kizers. The best one is the Vanguard Flashbang. And I don't mean best for the money. I mean best. $68. They have a lot of quality issues. Very inconsistent. Or maybe consistently problematic. At this point I'm done with Kizer.
Benchmades are overpriced but there's clearly some competition with ZT. The 940 vs the 0450 for example. I have a few of the classic Benchmades but I don't see myself getting more.

 

[HowAmI]

Agreed. Perhaps my point was lost. I said, "The 0920 and (soon) 0055 are priced below all but the budget WE offerings...." Then again, it's possible I misunderstod your reply --the internet can be funny that way-- but it's all good!

My point was that as per BHQ, the non-budget WE's begin around $250. The 0920 lists on their site for $240 and the 0055 is expected at $220. I would say that's favorable comparison.

I didn't know one could shop around and beat WE's MAP. I'll keep that in mind if/when cash flow improves. As for Kizer, I am far from an expert. The one's I've handled haven't been up to par with ZT IMO. Their budget line Vanguards have really impressed me for the price point, but aren't in the ZT league.

That is a favorable comparison. Kizer is the Benchmade of China, some knives are supposed to be high end but fail with QC and F&F.

 

[HowAmI]

Yeah. I think rike does some really awesome finishes and the quality of the machining is decent. Its the odd angular designs that really throw me. I like curvy elegant lines. Think mid ninties to late 00's ferraris. They do more of the lamborghini way of doing things. Which is imho just to cram as many opposing angular facets into a design as humanly possible. Thats the only thing i think chinese knife companies really have yet to master and that is flow within the design. WE does a good job. And reate came out strong with the horizon and has learned a lot from the custom collabs, especially Todd Begg. But rike to me just seems a little too close to the cheaper chinese knives in terms of style. When you have premium materials, finishes and fit and finish an ultra busy look to me just cheapens what could be a true winner.

I get why people like them but using cheap TC4 Titanium and pricing it at 6AL4V Titanium pricing is a bit wrong. The Thor series is not 6AL4V Titanium it's actually the "Chinese Grade 5 Equivalent" of 6AL4V called TC4. Source: Rike Knife's Official Instagram

 

[PURPLEDC]

I get why people like them but using cheap TC4 Titanium and pricing it at 6AL4V Titanium pricing is a bit wrong. The Thor series is not 6AL4V Titanium it's actually the "Chinese Grade 5 Equivalent" of 6AL4V called TC4. Source: Rike Knife's Official Instagram

Yeah but i dont really view that the way most people do. Reason being is TC4 if its quality should really not be any different than 6Al4v. Just like 440C and D2, 6al4v is a generic name that any titanium alloy can be called if its composition matches what 6AL4v is supposed to be. And i would bet money that some (not all some) of the 6al4v sold here in the states is imported from china and is simply their Tc4 equivalent and given the new name so people know what it is. I just have seen no evidence that its any different.

Some say it doesnt anodize as well. But rike seems to get some pretty awesome finishes. And all the proof i have seen so far that says tc4 is a lesser material has been lets just say less than scientific. When i buy titanium online very few places say where their ti is sourced from. The only people who i have seen push the tc4 vs 6al4v are company representatives who would like you to believe their product is superior.

Now i get that some will say that for the premium rike charges they should be using the best but I think its like arguing 440c from one company and 440c from another. And no o e really does that. Unless one knife was produced domestically and the other is not.

 

[AF]

That is a favorable comparison. Kizer is the Benchmade of China, some knives are supposed to be high end but fail with QC and F&F.

Using high-end materials (at a high cost) to create a shoddy product is a slap in the face to the consumer.