Inferior Khukuris? Put Up or Shut Up.

[Blackdog]

I am a moderator on this forum, which is something that I am extremely honored to be. The folks who visit and post here are GREAT PEOPLE and, with few exceptions, this forum moderates itself. My links to Gurkha House and this forum are strictly personal. I have no commercial stake in GH. My stake in all of this is far more valuable than money. I have a friend that I didn't have 14 months ago. Craig Gottlieb is one of only a handful people on earth that I would trust to cover my back in a bad situation. I've spent most of my adult life going in and out of bad situations for a living. I'm very picky about who I trust.

Now, to the heart of the matter. I'm awfully sick and tired of hearing the same old song about GH Khuks being somehow inferior to other brands. It pi$$es me off that every so often Craig has to defend himself and his products against these alleged "deficiencies". I own GH Khuks, there is nothing inferior about them and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

I have a beautiful, new-in-box, GH 16" AngKola. It is nothing short of magnificint. I will put this Khuk up for testing against any other brand Khuk of similar size, weight and construction. To seperate the men from the boys, I'll throw in $100 in cash out of my own pocket. The deal with the cash is that if, after testing, the GH Khuk is determined to be an inferior product I'll give the $100 to the challenger to cover his costs and spend as he pleases. If the GH Khuk is found to be equal to, or better than, the challenger's Khuk he will donate $100 to Educate The Children. Let's call it a testing fee to be paid by the loser.

Some rules have to be established here. From my side, I only insist on a level playing field. Craig will be learning about this for the first time right here with the rest of you. This isn't sponsored or funded by Gurkha House. This is my idea and mine alone. So, I insist that any challenger's Khuk be his personal property, like mine is. It's easy to brag when you've got nothing to lose. Talk is cheap.

As for the testing I'll leave the questions of who, what, when and where up to you folks. I want to see real life test situations. No hydraulic presses, cutting torches or explosives. If the khuk breaks during testing, so be it. To go far beyond human limitations to determine an abstract failing point is only a waste of time and good steel in this instance. If you have any ideas for the testing criteria and an impartial person to perform it, list them below.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN


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Blackdog

 

[chris22]

Test #1 (Lateral Strength Test)

Put the the khukuris in a vise and have a good sized fellow try his best to bend the blades. If a blade bends or breaks, or if the tang breaks, then we know right away if whether or not we are dealing with a quality product or just some piece of $H!_.

Christian

 

[FNG]

I`ve tested Craig`s khuks.They are just fine. I read the "Educate the Children" propaganda.They won`t get a dime. How about the old days; loser buys the beer.

 

[Blackdog]

FNG,

I'd be happy to throw the beer in just for good measure.

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Blackdog

 

[Craig Gottlieb]

You guys are truly one class act. And no, despite the fact that I'd love to claim responsibility for Blackdog's actions, I think most of you know him well enough to spot me as a liar if I did claim responsibility.

A note on the "vice" comment: I don't think that should be part of the test, as I advertise my spines as being slightly softer than they could be, as I don't WANT a blade to ever snap. I'd rather it bend into a U shape - it's just safer that way. I've never had a tang failure, and I don't EVER want to have one.

As for the challenge, Blackdog, I'd change the rules a bit - if it were a tie (or even close) then BOTH owners would donate to ETC the $100.00 testing fee (or send the money to the bishwakarmas - they could have 4 pujas for the money!).

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor

 

Testing Gurkha House khukuris is a moot point, I know Craig has good product. What khukuris I have, continue to stand up to the challenge of hard daily use and would certainly recommend them to anyone considering good khukuris.

Harry

 

[Steven F]

Blackdog, I applaud your stand. I suspect that the reason for the occasional negative comment is the ol' apples and oranges thing: compare a $75 khuk to a $150 khuk and chances are the latter will come out ahead. I have a number of GH khuks and, dollar for dollar, they're top-notch. I wouldn't still be buying GH khuks if they weren't.

For the person looking to buy his first khuk, he's likely to find that he can get a decent entry-level item from GH cheaper than he can somewhere else. But it's not fair to later compare that entry-level khuk to one from another manufacturer costing twice as much.

Bottom line: Craig's a good guy and GH offers quality products at a great price.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

GH khukuris have been tested directly against the HI khukuris several times. Craig has seen direct evidence of what happens when I lean on two of his models. I also saw a lower edge durability and point strength and butt-cap retention (the latter on the SN1 only). Cobalt and Will Kwan have also confirmed these aspects. Note however that in many respects the second khukuri I had from GH was a significant step up from the first. Still not at HI levels but much closer.

If you don't agree with the work done, fine. You state your opinion and let people make up their minds. Bottom line though is that Craig will back up his khukuris similar to what Bill does and there are not many that do this, Strider, Busse Combat, P.J. Turner, the new Becker Knives are all that come to mind. So if you don't like the performance you are not out anything except the time it took you to figure that out. Craig also has a much more sensible taste in beer.

-Cliff

 

[Blackdog]

Steven,

Let me clarify my point. The GH Khuks that are being produced today are not "entry level" by any means except price. My 16" AngKola is, as I said, a magnificent Khukuri in every regard. I believe it will perform as well as any Khuk of similar size, weight and construction that is being produced today, regardless of price.

Am I knocking any other brand of Khukuri? NO, I AM NOT!! Knives, as with most other things in life, are a matter of personal preference. What I am trying to do is dispel the myth that the brand I choose as a personal preference is somehow inferior because of its price. Not an apple and oranges comparison, more like Macintosh apples to Delicious apples. Which is the better apple? Depends on who you ask.....

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Blackdog

 

[Steven F]

Blackdog, when I said "entry-level" I meant it in terms only of price, not quality. In other words, I'm in total agreement with you on this. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, and for that I apologize. The last thing in the world I wanted to do was to further muddy the waters.

 

[Craig Gottlieb]

As most of you know, GH has always bought our khukuris from TB - who owns and runs "shop 1" if you prefer to use HI's parlance. Anybody will confirm this. This was a fact that I myself didn't know until about 6 months ago, when Lalit told me certain very troubling things. My trip to Nepal was very enlightening to say the least.

The only difference - in the beginning - between the two was the level of quality control exercised over the different brands. When we first started out, we weren't quite as demanding as a customer of TB - and so we got a more varied pick of the litter. Some dings, some scratches. As we expanded our business and grew, however, the quality control went up (as indicated by Cliff). We demanded more quality and durability from TB, and that's what we have now.

Remember too, when Cliff first tested our knife, he tested the SN1 - a small, lightweight khukuri. That it ALMOST equaled a knife that was considerably bigger, thicker, and heavier (the AK) was a testimony to its quality. You want me to take a "BAS" from HI out into the yard and bend it - no problem. I have several.

Then, the GH Bhojpure went up against an AK - and everybody knows that the fullered design of an AK gives it more strength than a standard flat blade. I'd bet that a Bhojpure of mine would not hold up nearly as well as an Ang Khola of mine.

These aren't exuses for anything - they're just facts. None of the knives broke, and none were rendered not-functional. So, when the "user" got back from chopping his way out of the sinking car, he could send the knife back for a new one. It was rather amusing how some chose to interpret the results. I honestly think it had a lot to do with the price of our khukuris. We can offer them at a very affordable price because we bring hundreds in at a time (read: cheaper shipping).

As for our guarantee? There's nothing better. Plain and simple. To quote "Sam" in Casablanca -- You are unhappy? We're unhappy.

And incidentally, people have been very concerned about the bishwakarmas at "shop 1" starving now that "shop 2" is up and running. Bill said that it was because they have a contract to produce "sheet metal" khukuris or something like that. Of course, in his defense, he only "heard" this. Well, the reason they aren't starving is because about 2% of the knives they made were sent stateside to HI. The rest were sent to Kathmandu to Lalit for tourist, local, or military sale, or sold to me. TB doesn't have the machinery to make "sheet metal" khukuris, nor does he want to make these, nor does he have the time. It's all they can do to keep supplying me. They're definitely not starving. They have modern clothes, they wear jewelry and watches, they eat well, their kids go to school - all because TB pays them well. I have nothing to do with it.

And for those of you who have emailed me regarding this thread - expressing surprise that ANYBODY derides our khukuris, you may want to read some older posts on this and other forums. Read carefully.

And yes, Cliff is most correct on one thing - I have GREAT taste in beers, and you light beer drinkers better watch out. My Murphy's Irish Stout can take down a whole six pack of Hefeweisen any day.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor

 

[FNG]

What happens to these posts when they dissappear on you? Do they go into the hoseone layer with your one sock?

The arms people have always had a no BS guarantee. The product is too important for less.

Here`s one that I just happened to find.

"If you don`t haphazardly throw it from a high flying aircraft, get it caught in a ship`s screws or use it for kindling, we will repair or replace it for life."

 

[Cobalt]

I think the whole issue here is that if the maker/dealer stands behind his product in every way it means that he is sold on it himself and is not just peddling a POS. Craig and the others Cliff mentioned are in this playing field. There are few who are in that field.

The khuk that I tested definitelly had damage and edge chipping and a partly broken handle, but the blade did not break or bend. The khuk was still useable in an emergency after having chopped almost an entire chord of wood. Not bad. I'm sure the kraton handle of my CS would have come off long before half a chord of wood and I would have been stuck with a knife I have to fix due to CS's crappy warranty.

Craig, I assume you like missssisssipppi mudddd.

 

[FNG]

Hell`s bells and shot shells.Morters all around. Is it not fun to live in a bunker under ground?
I don`t know how to spell aint.

 

[Will Kwan]

It is time for someone to put together another head to head comparison of a khukuri from Gurkha House and H.I. Both companies have evolved since then. H.I. is now being made at Shop 2. Gurkha House must also have improved as well (I don't see many complaints here).

The Gurkha House khukuri I have is one of the first ones to be imported. It was also definitely inferior to the H.I. khukuri. It would chip easily on wood and still does. This is not what Ron Hood's observed in his test with a more recent Gurkha House khukuri.

It would be interesting to see a Shop 2 H.I. compared to a new Gurkha House khukuri.

Will


[This message has been edited by Will Kwan (edited 06-26-2000).]

 

[Loki]

I'm somewhat amused by the debate. Having both HI and GH knives, I'm impressed with both and really can't see any practical differences between them. I've used them for general yard work - mostly wacking palm tree fronds. I like taking one when I go hiking in the "wilds" of San Diego. HI may offer more variety and "custom" work but GH basic models appear to match their HI counterparts. I suspect that you will never escape the comparisons game but in this case I really think it's driven by something other than product quality.

 

[FNG]

I did a little checking. This is The US. If anyone wants to donate to ETC, be my guest.
I guess things have changed.A USMC officer could not afford this a couple of years ago. Even with Klinton, it`s a good way to retire as a CAPT.
They are suspected of being a commie org. The money may well go to the Maoists.
Read their own statements.

China would love another foothold next to India. They will fight again.

 

[Craig Gottlieb]

Having both HI and GH knives, I'm impressed with both and really can't see any practical differences between them.

Thank you, Loki. Despite what others were lead to believe, GH khukuris were made in the same place and by the same hands as "shop 1" khukuris. As you all know now, Shop one never was owned by anybody else except TB Bishwakarma. Everybody else here is just TB's customer - plain and simple.

I suspect that you will never escape the comparisons game but in this case I really think it's driven by something other than product quality.

You hit the nail on the head, Loki.

As for the challenge, Blackdog threw down the gauntlet, although I don't think it's even necessary to waste the effort - Ron Hood did as brutal testing as one would need and our khukuri passed. I'm sure Bills would pass too.


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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor

 

[bernard]

I am new here and all that i can say is that some of the test posted on the net are biased, like comparing an axe with a pearing knife in a pearing competition. So issit to say that the $10 axe is lousy compared to the knife??? I frankly find this type of reviews useless since there really isnt a basis for comparison. They are in two different league. The first impression after reading those reviews is that these reviews are onesided. Whats most important is to have a suitable tool for a specific job.

I am a Katana fan and wanted to look for kukris due to their practicality versus grace as I wanted something with little maintenance and tough and was really surprised with the type of one sided review i see. To me its whats important is the heat treatment and not marketing hype. Even selling price can give one an impression of perceived quality. Perhaps Craig should sell it at double its current price and have a knife 1" thick and send it for reviews, wonder what the outcome will be.

The greatest gift of all is the ability to evaluate thing at their true worth.

 

[Marcus]

Double the price?!?!?! SSHHHHH! Don`t give Craig any ideas,at least until I but a few more to round out my collection.

You`re right though many of the tests are just plain silly. But some are very good as well. Cliff Stamps tests come to mind. If there`s any fault in a knife he`ll find it! Of course he pushes then to the edge and beyond so you have to decide how much of that performance you`ll really use or need. It`s nice to know how far stuff can go though. Speaking for my own GH khukuris their construction is excellent,performance in the field is VERY good and Craig`s customer service is wonderful. You can`t go wrong with GH products,oh and the low prices are nice too.

Marcus