INFI and rust

[shigawire4sure]

I've tried making it rust by getting it wet and putting it away unoiled in its sheath in a hot humid (leaky car, floorboards would get soaked after a rainstorm) in florida for a month. Best I got were a few light powdery spots of orange that wiped off with an oily rag, left a blue/black spot like gun blueing underneath, no pitting.

Edit: For what it's worth, I have far less luck with ATS-34 and 154CM as far as rust resistance goes. They form rust quicker and tend to pit unless it's removed immediately

Where in Florida are you bro? Ive had a similiar problem with a Benchmade made of 154Cm. Cant keep the bugger clean even in a drybox.

 

[Elen]

INFI seems to rust less than a lot of the "super stainless" steels, for example S30V. And the rust that it does develop in harsh conditions seems to be surface rusts, very easy to wipe off - sometimes a wipe with a dry cloth will do, and if not, some Flitz has so far worked every time. INFI does fine in Finnish weather all year around. I wouldn't hesistate occasionally using a CG Busse as a dive knife, if I didn't have more appropriate knives for the task.

 

[Boar-gen]

I can only imagine how mirror polished infi would hold up. I bet if you worked a double cut blade with some elbow grease and metal polish (or maybe a loaded buffing wheel) it would help out with the rust resistance.

You got something there! True- would probably not corrode even in saltwater! Now I know what to do with my knives once the get scratched up!

Boar-gen

 

[yoda4561]

Edit: Shig, I live in charlotte county. About 2 miles from the gulf. I used to carry an ATS-34 bm710 to work, and unless I oiled it before work and washed it when I got home it would start rusting and pitting by the next morning.

Okay here we go. Some interesting things. Basically clean infi is more or less untouchable by cold blue (brownell's dicropan T4). The only spots on the FBM that were affected were the ones that looked like they were decarbed by what I'm guessing was a really dull CNC bit. They showed up before the blue as somewhat deep gouges in the steel. You can see these in the image below.

here is a closeup of the bottom of the tang. I scrubbed this area just for the blueing check with 220 grit sandpaper, so it's as reactive as possible. As you can see aside from the decarb areas from milling it's untouched.

Okay, hit the FBM with a brass brush and a vigorous scrubbing with fp-10 on a paper towel. Aside from those deep milling marks on the spine and butt all that's left of the blueing is a light grey patina.

In the next two you can see the flat and edge of the blade. I'm guessing the flats reacted to the blueing due to decarb during HT. As you can see the edge is completely unaffected, and I doused that T4 on thick enough to puddle for about 5 minutes to let it work. Given what I've seen of the parts that I've sanded down to finish the decarb is probably only a thousanth thick or so, an aggressive beadblast would probably take it off, and the parts where the factory hand ground to fit to the scales (60 grit marks or coarser, bright steel) weren't affected by the dicropan either. Edit: ... You know, I've already done a good bit of work sanding down those CBT's and the flat, enough to make them at least bright looking, I blame the camera flash :grumpy:

 

[hillst1]

I use RENAISSANCE WAX on all my knives.

 

[Gerberblades]

What did it take to just her?Blood,salt water,humidity? When you say wipe off did you have to scrub at all ?

After I got done chopping my Christmas tree, the knife had a bunch of sap on it, so I rinsed it off in hot water, and lightly scrubbed with a nylon scrubby. After letting it dry, I noticed a little bit of rust on the blade, so I took a rag, and put some gun oil on it, and rubbed the rust off. I would not take mine in salt water if I were you, just too corrosive to metals, especially since infi is not stainless.

 

[shigawire4sure]

Edit: Shig, I live in charlotte county. About 2 miles from the gulf. I used to carry an ATS-34 bm710 to work, and unless I oiled it before work and washed it when I got home it would start rusting and pitting by the next morning.

Okay here we go. Some interesting things. Basically clean infi is more or less untouchable by cold blue (brownell's dicropan T4). The only spots on the FBM that were affected were the ones that looked like they were decarbed by what I'm guessing was a really dull CNC bit. They showed up before the blue as somewhat deep gouges in the steel. You can see these in the image below.

here is a closeup of the bottom of the tang. I scrubbed this area just for the blueing check with 220 grit sandpaper, so it's as reactive as possible. As you can see aside from the decarb areas from milling it's untouched.

Okay, hit the FBM with a brass brush and a vigorous scrubbing with fp-10 on a paper towel. Aside from those deep milling marks on the spine and butt all that's left of the blueing is a light grey patina.

In the next two you can see the flat and edge of the blade. I'm guessing the flats reacted to the blueing due to decarb during HT. As you can see the edge is completely unaffected, and I doused that T4 on thick enough to puddle for about 5 minutes to let it work. Given what I've seen of the parts that I've sanded down to finish the decarb is probably only a thousanth thick or so, an aggressive beadblast would probably take it off, and the parts where the factory hand ground to fit to the scales (60 grit marks or coarser, bright steel) weren't affected by the dicropan either. Edit: ... You know, I've already done a good bit of work sanding down those CBT's and the flat, enough to make them at least bright looking, I blame the camera flash :grumpy:

yoda-
thanx for those pics. I have been wanting to give my satin GW a try with the blue but wont bother now. Seems pretty useless. I have a couple Spydercos made of VG-10 that tarnish w/in a day as well. Even the pacific salt will relatively quick for a stainless. I use tough cloth on them toh well.

 

[yoda4561]

That Pacific Salt shouldn't rust at all, period. Degrease that puppy and carry it for a while, if it rusts have Sal take a look at it, I'm sure he'll be very interested.

Ed. Shig, I'm not saying that it's impossible to blue infi, but cold blue won't cut it. If you have a friendly local gunshop with a hot-blueing setup see if they'll dunk it in there for a little while to see if that works.

 

[din]

INFI seems to rust less than a lot of the "super stainless" steels, for example S30V. And the rust that it does develop in harsh conditions seems to be surface rusts, very easy to wipe off - sometimes a wipe with a dry cloth will do, and if not, some Flitz has so far worked every time. INFI does fine in Finnish weather all year around. I wouldn't hesistate occasionally using a CG Busse as a dive knife, if I didn't have more appropriate knives for the task.

oh Elen, come on! you can't look me in the eye and honestly tell me that there's a better dive knife than the new ASH-1CG!!! mostly because you're in finland and I'm in utah, but still...

 

[Elen]

oh Elen, come on! you can't look me in the eye and honestly tell me that there's a better dive knife than the new ASH-1CG!!! mostly because you're in finland and I'm in utah, but still...

Well, if I was in Utah, I'd say the Fat ASH is nice and all, but there's always the FFBM or AK!

 

[Progunner]

A "patina" (or patination) is the process of oxidation on steel or other metals.

Just as copper or bronze will turn green... the surface of carbon steel blade will oxidise when used to cut acidic foods.... some foods are more acidic than others.

Because the patina is only formed on the surface of the steel... it can actually help to prevent rust.

Here is my well used J Neilson knife custom made from 52100 steel (ball bearing steel)

I have used INFI on a lot of foods and it doesn't seem to patina like a carbon steel.

I have seen INFI's corrosion resistance compared to ATS-34 and that seems about right... although it's a completely different steel.

"patina can refer to any fading, darkening or other signs of age, which are felt to be natural and/or unavoidable."

Now that is pretty! Nothing like the look of a well used knife with a rich patina. Reminds me of all the old butcher knives and cleavers passed down in the family.

I have an Meaner Streets that I like to wear in the summer time, DCBB with green linen. I wear it in kydex under a shirt against the skin. I have highly corrosive sweat, always have and don't know why. The MrS got some fine red/orange rust in the talon holes that wiped away with a little oil and some 0000 steel wool. The tip got a bit thicker layer of the red stuff, but with the oil and steel wool it cam right off. It did leave a black patina and NO PITTING. This is wearing it daily for most of the summer and little to no care or maintenance. I love these knives!

 

[bladejunki]

Thanx guys thats pretty much what i wanted to hear. No pitting. I take very good care of my blades, especially living in S. Florida and all but have seen some pretty aggressive staining on my work knives in very short time..which are all very high quality carbon steels and even some stainless varieties as well. Everything gets oiled with mineral oil daily and i still see some spots. I havent seen this with INFI. I dont mind a nice patina my self,tends to lend character to a blade imo. As for salt water Ill just stick with my Ti blades..better safe than sorry I guess. While on the topic has anyone actually tryed Bluing their blades?

Bluing would be awesome if you didn't have to immerse the blades a hot solution that would ruin the tempering on the steel.

 

[Progunner]

INFI does not readily take blueing, at least the cold blue. That is one way you can tell between some of the older A2 blades from the INFI when certain models where made in both. I cold blued a Scrapper 6 LE, doesn't look too bad, but it is a truck knife anyway. Oh and as per Jerry, you would have to come close to or exceed 900 degrees F to screw up the heat treat on a Busse. This question has come up in regards to making kydex sheaths because that plastic has to be plenty hot to get a good forming.

 

[yoda4561]

Hot blueing solution isn't even boiling hot, nowhere near hot enough to ruin the temper. It's mostly water with some other tasty things mixed in, you may be confusing it with hot salt/nitreblueing, which is basically dipping a part in a special molten salt bath which can affect the temper.

Edit: Okay, it's slightly hotter than boiling water due to the blueing chemicals raising the boiling point of the solution. It's still only 150C/300F Max. This is about the lowest end of the tempering range for a simple carbon steel, still won't bother infi or most knife tempers.

 

[pbubsy]

I can't rightly remember what happened, but I think it was a rather drunken night that I fell asleep outside wearing my CG SHBM in sheath and apon waking up discovered that I was covered in dew and my knife handle (the only part exposed was wet as well) I didn't bother cleaning it off choosing to instead nurse my hangover. I ended up packing the knife away later without a second thought and found rust on it the next day. ONLY on the handle mind you. It wiped off with some warm water and soap....mostly..there's a little rust left that won't come off, not even with solvent, but it's embeded in some small cracks/grind marks/dimples around or near where the scales meet metal. Not too worried about it though. Hasn't spread at all and is hardly noticible.]

I got some orange stuff, I guess it was rust, on my stripped FFBM after leaving it out in the rain to see what would happen. ALL of it wiped off with nothing more than an oiled rag.

My SHBM has been stripped, bead blasted, and hand polished if I hadn't clarified that. There's no protective coating on it at all.

 

[Cobalt]

I use tuff cloth on all my knives and I have had them around water a lot, both river and sea and I have not had rust form on any of them except one that I dropped into the water and the only part that I did not run tuff cloth through was the rear talon hole and it developed a mild rust which I removed with a rolled up piece of 600 grit sand paper. The front talon hole did not develop rust and not sure why.

 

[Lycosa]

If RUST is the Issue, get a titanium knife. No worries then. I know, Titanium doesn't cut as well as steel---blah, blah, blah, but---that's the trade-off. I love my Titanium knives for that reason.

 

[knife hunter]

While on the topic has anyone actually tryed Bluing their blades?

Its never helped a gun that wasn't properly taken care.

it will still rust.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I had a stripped FSH get some marks on it. Gunoil wouldn't take it off, but a crocus cloth made it go away post-haste.

My thin NICK has a hammon-line-like mark diagonally across the front part of the blade and some go-away-with-oil stains/patinas nearer the handle. They turn blue so I don't worry too much about them. I've put Ren-wax on it and I take good care of it. If it patinas more over time I'll be fine. Leave mirror-finish kitchen knives to Ron Popeil.

 

[PlayWithKnives]

Being new to Busse i dont have first-hand rust experience to impart, but a few steps and some common sense will prevent rust on your busse or indeed any metal you intend to keep.

the real key is to keep her dry. Make sure after playtime is over that you quickly find a sink or hose and give a nice scrub, and a thorough drying.
if you have a sheath for your knife its not always the best idea to keep it in all the time. ESPECIALLY with leather. placing your busse back in sheath if its still wet can lead to mildew and rust.
i keep my battle mistress in the cardboard it came in because it wicks any moisture away from the knife and its not a big deal if it gets wet, unlike a leather sheath.

hope that helps.