INFI in 2018

BlackKnight86 said:
Only to the extent that people let it.

Metallurgy is what it is. The only relevant discussion is the science and engineering involved, along with the real-world experiences that go along with it. I recall reading an article about Carbon V and INFI; and the author spoke of metallurgical issues, not who's interested in Cold Steel or Busse. His conclusion was that both steels were excellent cutlery steels, given the parameters and compromises that that kind of classification entails.
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The OP began the thread by saying that there were fewer discussions about Infi and wondered if it still holds up today relative to other steels. I addressed his concern by stating that the apparent interest in the steel is tied to interest in Busse. In other words, it is not tied to the quality of the steel.
 
Twindog said:
My understanding is that Infi is very close to A8 (mod), which is an extremely tough steel often used for chipper blades. It's a low carbon (somewhere around .55 C) steel with about 5 percent chrome and a few other elements. It's not going to be as tough as S7, but it will have better wear resistance.

Some knife makers use it, too. Fredrik Haakonsen, a PhD metallurgist and knife maker, likes it because of its toughness. It will bend before it breaks. It also doesn't like to chip, but it will roll.

I've found that Infi is roughly as tough as 3V, but will less wear resistance, but I was comparing different knives and heat treats, so it's difficult for me to know with any certainty.

It's an interesting issue about the proper balance between toughness and strength and wear resistance. That balance will be different for various cutting applications.
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Based on the combination of toughness and the "not stainless, but stains less" aspects of INFI I'd basically presumed it was something in the A series due to the presence of both chromium and nickel.
 
skyhorse said:
Yeah getting an infi knife you want is a huge pita without paying thru the nose on the secondary market.The Swamp Rat line is much easier if you like SR101.You can order one online.
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I have been wondering about all of the SR101 coming out of Busse lately. Is it just an attempt to get the prices down or what?
 
The Mastiff said:
Larrin would be a great one to discuss metallurgy with as he is a metallurgist. A knifemaker before that. There was never really anything secret about Carbon V or Infi or what they are. IMO in the case of Busse knives the lengths they go to to keep the quality levels up is what is important not what steel they use. There really isn't anything unusual about those. For whatever reasons people have really bought into the marketing as much as the steel used in their knives.

joe
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My comment didn't have anything to do with Larrin's resume.

"In [your] opinion". Yes.....it is. And it is an equally valid opinion that people "bought into the marketing" simply because they consider the product to match the value that the marketing conveys.

It would be perfectly reasonable to hypothesize that regardless of what marketing is used, a product without value would not be able to sustain a market, certainly not for very long. It follows that, when considering the objective value of the product, the importance of marketing is superficial and subjective.
 
Larrin said:
The OP began the thread by saying that there were fewer discussions about Infi and wondered if it still holds up today relative to other steels. I addressed his concern by stating that the apparent interest in the steel is tied to interest in Busse. In other words, it is not tied to the quality of the steel.
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And how would you know this? By what measure do you draw that conclusion, given that Busse are the only ones using it?
 
BlackKnight86 said:
And how would you know this? By what measure do you draw that conclusion, given that Busse are the only ones using it?
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I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. If Busse is the only one using it then interest in Infi knives is inherently tied to Busse.
 
Larrin said:
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. If Busse is the only one using it then interest in Infi knives is inherently tied to Busse.
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That is not quite what you said earlier. You said "the level of discussion is related to the amount of interest in Busse knives", in a thread where Balls Deep's wondering how Infi fans thought the steel measured up against the newer CPM steels. I merely pointed out that one does not require "interest" to discuss the objective merits of a steel, and I made reference to an article that spoke of the characteristics of the steel, and mentioned the companies only to say who used the steels.

The relevant question is, is it a "good" steel, or is it not (with all that entails)? All other considerations are arguably secondary.

I would argue that if one wants a Busse knife, one can get it quite easily, and directly from Busse. One may not be able to get the exact model one wants; but owning a Busse is not as difficult as some assert it is.

I own Busses because I like Busses, yes. But I like Busses because their knives are good, and one of the things that make them good is the steel, at least in my experience.

I have no interest in Striders. Part of that lack of interest is the steel that is used. But I can have a discussion regard both Striders and the steel they use.

I did not argue that you were correct or incorrect. I argued that your assertion was entirely a function of one's choice.
 
It's really not hard at all to get a Busse knife nowadays. 10 years ago I waited 6 months to finally get a small game warden. Now the exchange or operation two weeks has numerous blades for sale.
 
Cedric and Ada's YT rope cut video on the Team Gemini got me interested in this. Most of the knives Cedric tests in this manner are more geared toward slicing, in terms of geometry and edge thickness. So obviously the TG isn't a valid representation of INFI in this respect.

I decided to test Busse's BAD against a few PM2's. The BAD is Rc 60-62 INFI, and very close in geometry to the PM2's. I sharpened PM2's in M390, M4 and S30V to 15 DPS, 800 grit, plus 10k strop, as well as the BAD. On 3/8 inch sisal rope, INFI and M390 each did 500 cuts before failing to cleanly slice notebook paper. M4 did 650 cuts, and S30V did 250.

On the issue of INFI vs SR-101, I tested a pair of Park Rangers through a series of cardboard, paper and rope cutting and batoning. I was expecting the SR-101 to hold an edge better with cardboard and rope, but it really didn't. The SR-101 has a finer grain, rusts much more easily and is quite a bit harder to restore than INFI (at 58-60).

So my general conclusion is that INFI is a plenty competitive steel. It has relatively high toughness, moderate corrosion resistance, pretty good edge retention, and is relatively easy to sharpen and restore in the field. I think INFI is well-suited to heavier field knives at 58-60. I also think Busse tends to make their blades a little too thick and obtuse. And I'd like to see more INFI offerings harder than 58-60.
 
Oh no, here we go again... :rolleyes: Queue a certain member's blog reference in 5... 4... 3... o_O

tsiloics said:
Cedric and Ada's YT rope cut video on the Team Gemini got me interested in this. Most of the knives Cedric tests in this manner are more geared toward slicing, in terms of geometry and edge thickness. So obviously the TG isn't a valid representation of INFI in this respect.

I decided to test Busse's BAD against a few PM2's. The BAD is Rc 60-62 INFI, and very close in geometry to the PM2's. I sharpened PM2's in M390, M4 and S30V to 15 DPS, 800 grit, plus 10k strop, as well as the BAD. On 3/8 inch sisal rope, INFI and M390 each did 500 cuts before failing to cleanly slice notebook paper. M4 did 650 cuts, and S30V did 250.

On the issue of INFI vs SR-101, I tested a pair of Park Rangers through a series of cardboard, paper and rope cutting and batoning. I was expecting the SR-101 to hold an edge better with cardboard and rope, but it really didn't. The SR-101 has a finer grain, rusts much more easily and is quite a bit harder to restore than INFI (at 58-60).

So my general conclusion is that INFI is a plenty competitive steel. It has relatively high toughness, moderate corrosion resistance, pretty good edge retention, and is relatively easy to sharpen and restore in the field. I think INFI is well-suited to heavier field knives at 58-60. I also think Busse tends to make their blades a little too thick and obtuse. And I'd like to see more INFI offerings harder than 58-60.
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Well done. Yes, I'd also like to see more 60-62Rc INFI offerings myself.
 
Balls Deep said:
I lurk more than I post and read threads pretty regularly that roll through. The more time that goes by I see, the less references to infi steel when discussing favorite or recommended steels and am surprised at the lack of YouTube reviews especially from respected knife channels on Busse knives in general. I'm curious to know how infi fans feel that the steel is holding up in the era of more prominent CPM steels with proper heat treatments. One of the few comprehensive comparison reviews I can find shows a rope cutting test of about 100 successful cuts before losing reliable cutting, which the reviewer says was about half of what cpm 3v in a similar grind could do. My understanding is that infi primarily shines in it's extreme chipping resistance, so larger choppers are the ideal application.

Part of the reason I'm also asking is that as I slowly crawl through graduate school one of the goals that keeps me going is buying a dream fixed blade following graduation and I'm definately looking at the Busse's in the private exchange as a proper reward knife.

Please let me know your thoughts when you can!
Thanks,
Balls
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INFI is still relevant, and still s very high quality, very tough, nearly stainless, easy to sharpen, virtually maintenance free steel.

Busse continues to put out a high volume of new knife designs. Really, the amount of different designs they continue to produce is mind boggling.

There are some quirks to their production model, and buying can be intimidating when you don't understand the model.

It is easier now to get new and old models at lower prices (less or no markup) than if has been for a decade.

Even old classics that are rare are coming in on the exchange at significantly less that previously available (of course, over original prices 15 to 20 years ago).

I've owned somewhere between 15 or so? I've used significantly more than that, including old models earlier versions at higher hardness. I've also been able to use some of their earlier pieces in A2.

I've used thin, thick, regular hardness and recent runs back at the higher hardness in thin profiles.

All have been great.

They continue to make top tier production blades with a tough high performance steel.

Also, I've used Swamprat in SR101 (52100).

They have also released models in D2, 154cm, Sr77 and others. All to good reviews as to the performance they get out of the steel used.


In my mind, the INFI is at it's best in the big choppers. I also can say I liked satin infi in thin high hardness even more. Still tough enough, but better edge retention in slicing, and also higher edge stability at thinner angles.

I was impressed with all their steels. I have used INFI hard, same for A2, and SR101. I've accidentally chopped stones in half with INFI and was amazed at how little edge rolling there was, and how easily it pushed back in alignment (by steeling it with a hard chromed round screwdeiver) back to shaving sharp on that spot in minutes. I was sure it would take a long time to get the edge back. Then, I watched that spot through a few more years at chopping ti see if it would fatigue or fail. (Granted, I've seen much much worse damage that took me a week or so of spare time to fix on a similar sized knife in laminated steel).

Their warranty really does encourage stupid use. I've thrown a large Busse that was at the time going for 1k.

I had another that some one shot with a .50 BMG with armor piercing rounds sideways. It broke into about 3 pieces. I got it for the pieces for a project.

Busse reached out to me to see if I wanted to send in for warranty/replacememr/shop credit.

I've seen people chop through logging chains, cut cars in half with a mallet or sledge hammer to drive Busse though the steel (literally disassemble multi cars with them without breaking them).

I consider that just silly "because I can" stuff, and would never do it to mine. But I could.

I also own and use CPM3v, and quite a few other steels.

I currently don't own any more INFI. I've used and sold off (usually to buy/try the newer model that catches my eye).
I'm down to a single big Busse WTF in. SR101.
Because I have limited knife funds, I usually sell off knives to buy new knives.

Recently, I made a concious move to move over toward customs knives.

If you want a Busse, find one you like, buy it and use it. They retain value well.

There are so many great steels, designs, and so many cool customs right now. It is a great time to be a buyer/user.

I've found after 13+ years using Busse and other knives I know more what I like in a user.
If I had the money, I'd still be adding new Busse designs to thecollection, and custom makers knives as well. I've not had a single bad experience with any if their knives, or designs.



wvriverats said:
I have been wondering about all of the SR101 coming out of Busse lately. Is it just an attempt to get the prices down or what?
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I have a theory about this. (Completely unconfirmed, wild speculation). BUSSE has a lot of steel. INFI and SR101, and others. They are making more knives than ever, and I think they are using up supplies of INFI, and SR101. I believe at some point they will start releasing new knives in new "INFI 2.0 or 3.0"

Busse is continually testing new steels, heat treat proto calls, etc. I think they already have a newer/better upgraded version.

But they have a lot of great steel to use up too.

I predict at some point you will see a better version of INFI used (probably with an eye to even higher wear resistance), and more and more Scrapyard and Swamprat blades released in INFI.

Just a thought.
 
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