INFI vs 420HC

[nozh2002]

I did some edge holding testing.

I measure sharpness by thread cutting - cut thread by same point on the blade on weights 21 times and take median as a result.

I sharpened GW to be hair splitting sharp, this is thread cutting test results for this sharpness (40g):

30 ++++
40 ++++++X++
50 ++++++++

Then I cut 1/2" Manila rope and measure sharpness after each cut at the beginning and then with variable step. I finish at 400 with sharpness = 120 grams.

I thought it will be my top range of the scale and all steels should be lower then this.

Than I take 420HC sub zero quenched on my old Cold Steel ODA. I thought it will be lower part of the scale - 420HC and Cold Steel has some reputation on BFs...

I sharpened it to hair splitting sharpness - actually hair whittling sharpness - it take good long shave out of hair. Initial sharpness was so 30 grams.

20 ++++
30 ++++++X+++
40 ++++
50 +++

It was better then INFI, probably due to softness of the steel. Then I start cutting my manila rope and measure results:

Cuts 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 12 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 60 70 80
420 30 50 50 60 50 60 60 70 80 70 70 70 80 70 80 80 80 90 70 80 70 80 80
INFI 40 60 70 70 80 80 80 ?? 80 80 70 80 80 80 80 90 90 90 90 80 90 ?? 100

It is only 45 cuts so far to compare. I have 400 for INFI and 45 fo 420, will
continue.

But it does not looks that INFI is far superior then 420HC. Superiority on 420HC over INFI may be questioned so far - it is not so much better, but it is clear that INFI is not too much superior over 420HC!

Of course I will continue my researches and testings - will see how it will look after 400 cuts, but so far I am very surprised, and I feel I have to report this here now! I thought difference will be obvious.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Justabuyer]

Which knife was harder Vassili?

 

[MORIMOTOM]

i am not totally surprised by your results.

where i think it would become apparant would be in cutting coarser mediums and edge retention.

also durability, stain resistance, corrosion resistance, etc.

 

[nozh2002]

Which knife was harder Vassili?

Cold Steel ODA (replica of Randall #1) made in Taiwan 420HC sub zero quenched 57 HRC - cheap entry level steel! Very stain and corrosion resistant.

Versus Busse Game Warden Blac-Tan/Black INFI 58-60HRC.

Manila rope is well known media for edge retention tests. However I made some device to awoid any contact with anything but rope:

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[leatherman]

i am not totally surprised by your results.

where i think it would become apparant would be in cutting coarser mediums and edge retention.

also durability, stain resistance, corrosion resistance, etc.

I agree, and add that the knives are of vastly different blade lengths. Was he using the entire length of the CS knife? As opposed to the under 3" blade of the Warden. That would skew the tests a bit.

I'll refrain from any CS vs Busse comments.

 

[b-square]

There are many steels that can be considered superior to INFI based on a single metric. In your case you are measuring one aspect of edge holding and nothing else. Even assuming your testing is valid, it completely misses the value of the balanced performance of INFI.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei...w=420hc+chipped&d=NJY3tedmPpTe&icp=1&.intl=us

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei...w=420hc+chipped&d=EeXThedmPoV6&icp=1&.intl=us

one is less abusive then the other, but both show occurances of chipped 420hc. under the right heat treatment, it may make an excellent and comparable super cheap alternative to infi - but it still has chipped before, which is one serious point against it as a hard use steel.

but this is a test of edge holding rather then chip resistance of strength.



EDIT: I partly revoke this statement. the chipping issues were with buck, who may have had a heat treatment protocol that was lax in qc.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

I agree, and add that the knives are of vastly different blade lengths. Was he using the entire length of the CS knife? As opposed to the under 3" blade of the Warden. That would skew the tests a bit.

I'll refrain from any CS vs Busse comments.

cut thread by same point on the blade

words added to make the post length acceptable by forum programming

 

[nozh2002]

This test is steel edge holding test. So it measure only how rope cutting affects the edge and so cutting as well as measurements happen only in small area of the blade around marked point. I am cuting manila rope and measuring how duller edge came in result.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

There are many steels that can be considered superior to INFI based on a single metric. In your case you are measuring one aspect of edge holding and nothing else. Even assuming your testing is valid, it completely misses the value of the balanced performance of INFI.

Well, 420HC suppose to be junk in comparison to INFI!

Now all this "balanced performance" responses I heard quite a lot for last 20 years in computer business - kind of developed immunity to it. It is usually means that "Yes we were beaten by our competitors in this benchmark but so what!". And if not then "Independent benchmarks clearly show our superiority!". Saw this thousands times...

Lets talk about real thing, not "value of balanced performance" - I can talk like this myself if I will need to sell something which is not too good (which I never did), like value of balanced performance of China made junk knives for example (price performance value is outstanding isn't it?).

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[theonew]

I'll still waiting for the results after 400 cuts with the 440HC

 

[Tony G]

I’m more interested in what kind of Vodka you’ll use during this test.

 

[nozh2002]

I'll still waiting for the results after 400 cuts with the 440HC

Sure, I will finish this in some time - problem is that tightening thread hurt my finger tips and I just can not do more testing then certain amount - also it is time consuming. But when I see 420 doing better first 9 cuts I thought it will not be for so long, but now - today it is 45 cuts and it is still bit better.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I think if you like the 420HC, stick with it. Go with what you like.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I agree, and add that the knives are of vastly different blade lengths. Was he using the entire length of the CS knife? As opposed to the under 3" blade of the Warden. That would skew the tests a bit.

I'll refrain from any CS vs Busse comments.

Leverage comes into play as well, I believe.

 

[nozh2002]

I’m more interested in what kind of Vodka you’ll use during this test.

Last two measurements 40 and 45 was under influence of Nemiroff "Rye honey"...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[theonew]

Last two measurements 40 and 45 was under influence of Nemiroff "Rye honey"...

Thanks, Vassili.

Thanks the problem right there. You need to be drinking Scotch when testing INFI.

 

[nozh2002]

I think if you like the 420HC, stick with it. Go with what you like.

What makes you think that I like 420 or dislike INFI?

It is not really, matter of personal preferences - this is more or less fair testing which shows performance. I am not blind fan boy and like to know real difference.

I am really surprised - again I choose this two steel to set top and bottom range where all other steel fall in between, but I am not taking this defensive!

The only thing I like - I like to know.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

Thanks the problem right there. You need to be drinking Scotch when testing INFI.

Well, did you see how did I sharpen my INFI? Good Russian Vodka is good for everything!

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. ...from other hand, technically Nemiroff is Ukrainian... need to do more investigation.

P.P.S. ...from other other hand, I did test 420 today not INFI... INFI was done last week...

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I was just wondering how long the blade on the other knife was- unless the overall length is the same as the warden, then you will have greater leverage. Blade thickness might have an influence as well.