INFI vs 420HC

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Very neat test, Vassili. Thank you for sharing the results and the brand of Ukrainian vodka with us. Some people would Kiev those secrets to themselves.
 
leatherman said:
Point taken bro :) I just got a little miffed when I saw that. Guess I'm a blind fanboy. :o :p
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I took that comment the same way at first but the rest of his data and posts do not seem to be directed at loyal users. After all, we are all about real life results.

I know I do my corny videos to help show what my INFI can tolerate or how it performs because, despite what other respected HOGS say here, I just have to know my self. :D

And who here would know better how INFI holds up than you LeatherHog? :thumbup: I mean pounding a knife through the thick part of a car hood with no damage to the blade... :eek: :thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks for the data so far Vassili. Even if we find variables that may skew your test a bit it is still good to see a comparison on any level.
 
I did some researches for second week, almost wear off my fingertips, cut manila rope 460 times total. cut cotton thread #10 total 1680 times recording results, found interesting results - explain all here in details, explain my initial intention to have INFI at the top of the scale and 420HC at the bottom...

Sorry if I take - "Stick with 420 if you like it so much" bit defensive!
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Once again it is only 1" of the blade used for cutting. It does not matter how long is blade or handle.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Those are interesting test results Vassilli. Keep us updated with the long run results. I for one would be interested in it.

I never even gave 420 a second glance because I just assumed that it was a POS steel. I won't be selling my INFI for that stuff anytime soon but it is definitely interesting to see that it is holding up pretty well. I am sure that INFI will have it beat when consider all of the attributes like Edge Holding, Toughness, Impact Resistance, etc....

As been said before... there are steels out there that have INFI beat in single attributes. For instance CPM 10v and 15V are both more wear resistance than INFI, S7 has more impact resistance, talonite is more corrosion resistant. They are all specialist in their respective categories but are quite lacking in others.

INFI excels in most of the categories in one complete package and that is the reason why it is awesome.
 
nozh2002 said:
Sorry if I take - "Stick with 420 if you like it so much" bit defensive!
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Once again it is only 1" of the blade used for cutting. It does not matter how long is blade or handle.

Thanks, Vassili.
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I agree. There is really no need for that and other negative comments. Vassili was just sharing his findings.
 
In a small knife you would likely find Stellite or Talonite to make the most cuts, or to cut for the longest time.(non-steel knife though)

For each knife you might want to look up the best edge geometery for that particular steel for the particular use you are putting the knife to.

A wider angle, while taking more force to make a cut will retain the ablity to cut longer in both INFI and Stellite.
 
Although I agree that certain steel will perform more optimally with certain geometries......

I think that optimizing the geometry for each individual steel would skew the results and favor one steel over the other depending on the medium being cut.

In order for the test to be fair both knives need to have the same geometries and sharpened to the same level of sharpness at the same angle. Only then can we see the strengths and weakness when given the same set of parameters.
 
Ban: You nailed a lot of my thoughts. Well stated.

Vassili: Under normal conditions the size of the blade and handle are big factors. Longer knives provide more leverage and can make work easier. Perhaps your set up neglects this factor. Again, thank you for the results and keep them comming. :)
 
Different Steels, Sharpened to optimize what that particular Steel is best for is more what I had in mind.

INFI is top of the heap in a Big Chopper for edge retention in a Soft clean Material like rope, wood ect.

In small knives, I like Stellite, as long as the knife is not to be used for prying or cutting hard material.

Where INFI or Modified INFI seems to come into it's own in small knives is where staying Sharp and being used to pry come together, like my tool box, for this I like a Basic #3

In Kitchen knives, While I do have INFI knives in my Kitchen, I am much more like ly to use a Murray Carter Custom, or even my Dexter/Russels than INFI for most tasks.

By all means keep testing, post results and keep a thick skin since there are those who might get upset.

I use many different Knives made of many different steels for different things.

INFI has it's place as do several others.

It might be Nice if I had a big INFI Cleaver to replace Ward,(Mister Cleaver, the Beeve's Dad) My Big Dexter.
 
I think Cliff Stamp was pretty accurate on INFI. He'd prolly say 420HC is good for certain applications.

Below is what he had to say.

Edge retention of INFI on gritty materials

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I came across this recently as I was doing some edits and it illustrates something Jerry has noted many times, basically of the factors in the high edge retention of INFI is its high toughness and ductility :

I cut strips off of a 2' section of the carpet with a CPM-420V fillet knife, the Battle Mistress, and a CPM-10V light utility knife. The edge bevel angles are similar on all three blades. I recorded the number of slices needed to cut off a section, and made four sections with each blade for each trial and a total of four runs. The results are given below :

<TABLE border=1>

<TR><TH>Steel</TH><TH>First run</TH><TH>Second run</TH><TH>Third run</TH><TH>Fourth run</TH></TR>

<TR><TD>10V</TD><TD align=center>2.5 +/- 0.3</TD><TD align=center>4.0 +/- 0.7</TD><TD align=center>2.5 +/- 0.3</TD><TD align=center>3.5 +/- 0.5</TD></TR>

<TR><TD>420V</TD><TD align=center>2.0 +/- 0.4</TD><TD align=center>2.8 +/- 0.5</TD><TD align=center>3.3 +/- 0.3</TD><TD align=center>3.5 +/- 0.5</TD></TR>

<TR><TD>INFI</TD><TD align=center>3.0 +/- 0.4</TD><TD align=center>4.3 +/- 0.3</TD><TD align=center>2.8 +/- 0.3</TD><TD align=center>5.5 +/- 0.5</TD></TR>

</TABLE>

Can anything concrete be said about the edge retention from the numbers alone? Well it looks like the 10V blade was effected the least, but there is too much variance from run to run to really quantify the effect. Ok, can anything at all be gained from the work? Yes. An inspection of the edges reveals some interesting features. The INFI blades is heavily rolled, light reflects from pretty much its entire length. The 10V blade only reflects light from one spot about 2 mm long and the 420V blade similarily showed little impacting/rolling about 4 spots in total each 1-2 mm long. However under magnification the 420V blade showed numerous chips along the edge, the largest of which was 1 mm long by .4 mm deep and was visible to the naked eye. Neither the 10V or INFI blade showed similar chipping.


Does this blunting effect how the blades need to be sharpened? Yes. After some smooth steeling (10 strokes) neither blade showed significant progress. However after 10 strokes on a butchers steel the INFI blade now shaved and all blades sliced paper well. Figuring that the increased mass of the INFI
blade would make steeling more effective I repeated the work with the butchers steel on the CPM blades using more force, however no significant gain was seen. I then used 10 strokes on a 12" fine DMT rod and 5 on an 800 grit ceramic rod and the 10V blade was shaving sharp, the 420V blade still was not, it needed to be sharpened on a benchstone in order to remove the fractures and restore the edge. Basically INFI didn't fracture and just deformed and so was easily restored by steeling, CPM-10V fractured a little and needed some light work with a rod and CPM-420V fractured a lot and need to be honed.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-12-2000).]
 
That's not nice! translation, anyone?

BTW- Thanks for the tests Nozh
 
Noz, test is in and you guys can check it out on the review forum. Quite interesting. After cut 100, INFI pretty much stabilized and did not wear much. At cut 400 it was still performing close to it's 100 cut performance. Shows how the long term cutting is in INFI's favor, which goes towards confirming the 2771 cuts:D
 
Jerry Busse said:
.

In "LIVE" demonstrations at BLADE Show we cut over 2,770 pieces of one inch hemp rope with approx. 1 3/4" length of a 9 1/2" bowie style blade. We did these tests "LIVE" in order to avoid any misinterpretations of the results. :thumbup:

Cheers ! ! ! !. . . . Let's Drink!!! :thumbup:

Jerry


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jerry fails to mention that he stopped after 2770 cuts only because he ran out of rope.

Cheers ! ! ! !. . . . Let's Drink!!!
 
Thanks for the very interesting test. I have always admired the edge holding of my Bucks. Stainless is good for skinning animals since blood will rust most steels quickly. I am probably never going to make 500 cuts on any of my knives without touching up the edge anyway. I think 420HC is under rated by some. Having said all that, I still am not giving up my Busses, Swamp Rats, or Scrap Yard knives. They are tough hard use knives that I would trust over my trusty Buck 119 in a survival situation. My SY Scrapper 6 cuts well enough and is far tougher than my Buck. Thanks again for all the work.
 
I think this is a fair comparison, though we would need more trials for a more accurate picture. I'm really not surprised, 420HC performed very well in my use, and tested out to be 60 rc. This is likely a point or two harder than INFI heat treat. INFI is very tough, but so is 420HC. The two steels are not that different in terms of properties.

It would be great to have a Mule Team knife in INFI, so it can be directly compared to other steels.
 
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