INFI vs S30V

I think the damage was more due to feherman grinding their knives optimized more for cutting ability than abuse, relying on 3v's inherent toughness to prevent damage. On the one 3v blade I have I've noticed it's quite prone to deformation when ground very thin (it's a zero ground edge, no secondary bevel) . 3v is pretty close to Infi as far as categorizing steels. S30v isn't even in the same league in the toughness dept. It is quite strong, almost all modern stainless steels are strong. Where they suffer is when they're pushed beyond that level of strength, and snap instead of flex. S30v is no exception. Striders are build with very stout, full thickness spines to overcome that disadvantage.
 
Cobalt said:
no exact values but it is higher than S7.
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I'm also not trying to pick a fight but can you point to anything even remotely specific. Heck, just a quote from Jerry to this effect, is good enough for me :D
 
it's all about the heat treatment of the steel.

if you d a crabby job with s30v, a knife of 400 series steel will whoop it's ass!
however, if s30v is heated properly it is a great steel.

cant believe that it took 20 posts before someone even mentioned the importance of heat-treatment, and on a forum like this!

the knives i got that is made of s30v hold up great, my BM 940 ti is made of s30v, and she holds up great!

after all, a knife is a CUTTING tool, and most of them are made to cut, and nothing else.
 
Heat treating properly is key, and Fehrman is the best at heat treating CPM 3V, which is why IMHO his knives can take the abuse. I own both and love both.
 
yoda4561 said:
On the one 3v blade I have I've noticed it's quite prone to deformation when ground very thin (it's a zero ground edge, no secondary bevel) .
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I don't own any 3V but that has been exactly my experience with INFI.
 
theonew said:
I'm also not trying to pick a fight but can you point to anything even remotely specific. Heck, just a quote from Jerry to this effect, is good enough for me :D
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Jerry has been asked this before and has answered it, but I have no inclination to go look for it.



dbltap45acp said:
Cobalt, what would you describe as abuse for a knife? I by no means think cutting through metal or cinder blocks as something you would do with your knife, but chopping wood is in the realm of a knife.

Cliff said the Fehrman chipped when hitting it against the cinder block, but did not show pictures of the edge. I spoke to Eric Fehrman and he said that they were more like rolls on the edge, not chips. He said he sharpened it and sold it to a friend. Why do you think that Cliff shows pictures of all sorts of blade damage to knifes, but did not show a picture of this instance.

I am curious, not trying to pick a fight, just curious.
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I remember seeing pics of the Fehrman. Cliff stopped the test early because the destruction of the knife was imminent.

As for abuse, I agree with your definition, but would add batoning with wood baton to be perfectly fine.

using a cinder block or metal is definite abuse(though Cliff didn't think so:eek:), but people do it to simulate long term damage on hard use steels. I seriously doubt you could damage 3V by chopping. you could damage it on knots and you can damage it on large animal leg bones, but that is not unusual as leg bones are very tough.

The CPM3V I had behaved exactly like Cliffs 3V and it was not from the same maker. So far, 3V in my experience is no where near as tough. Maybe the HT has gotten better and today's 3V is better than 3 years ago. Don't know. But until someone throws their 3V knife into wood stumps 15,000 times and it has not broken or when you have twisted your 3V knife many hundreds of times out of the wood stump sideways prying the last 1.5 inches of the tip and it does not break or when you chop into said stump tons of times and twist the edge out. when someone can do all those things and it is still alive after 9 years, then we got something to talk about.

again, search function is your friend. The OP's question has been asked a million times.
 
Pretty hard to chip a knife when the bevel and edge is as thick as Busse puts on their knives. I have a SJTac that has been through hell and back but I cant get a very good edge on it. All I use it for is batoning so I dont really care though. I cant seem to sharpen it on my sharpmaker but I did manage to "sharpen" it on a stone.
 
SubaruSTi said:
Pretty hard to chip a knife when the bevel and edge is as thick as Busse puts on their knives. I have a SJTac that has been through hell and back but I cant get a very good edge on it. All I use it for is batoning so I dont really care though. I cant seem to sharpen it on my sharpmaker but I did manage to "sharpen" it on a stone.
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that is why i stopped use striders.... the edge suck for normal use.
however i do thing busses convex edge works great!
 
Horton---You are a Baron of Brain!
All the knife world needs is INFI and A-2.
You are absolutely correct!!
 
SubaruSTi said:
Pretty hard to chip a knife when the bevel and edge is as thick as Busse puts on their knives. I have a SJTac that has been through hell and back but I cant get a very good edge on it. All I use it for is batoning so I dont really care though. I cant seem to sharpen it on my sharpmaker but I did manage to "sharpen" it on a stone.
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:confused: Any number of people have been able to put a very sharp edge on Busse knives. Maybe you could send it back to the shop for resharpening, or there are several members here who could put a nice edge on it for you.
 
[expert rant] I've been chopping wood with various edged tools for 30 years and if you put a good edge angle on a $15 machete it will not chip when you hit a knot in wood. INFI is much more forgiving in the edge angle but it has it's limits. I wouldn't put a chopping edge on a fillet knife and vice versa. I'm going to throw out some numbers and say that they work for me. Initially lay the edge back to 20-25 degrees and then steepen up the final edge by 5-7 degrees for a half dozen or so swipes. I believe that the edge from the shop is steeper than that. Those angles make a good chopper and you can still gut a deer with it. If I were going to primarily gut a deer I'd start with 15-20 degrees but I'm sticking with chopping since this is my area of expertise. (these angles are between the blade and the stone.)[/expert rant] I think the steep edge from the shop is meant to stand up to chopping yet toothy enough for most slicing. Jerry know his steel and you have to compensate one way or the other if you decide to alter that edge angle.
 
just to clarify for the orginal poster, the subject seems to have drifted just a tad bit.....


originally, we were talking about infi vs. s30v, and that conversation has shifted into infi vs. cpm 3v....


just to clarify...
 
As one of the guilty drifters I will say that I lay the first angle on s30v back to 15° or so and steepen the final edge up about 7°-10° and that seems to cut and slice well while lasting a decent amount of time. Chopping s30v against INFI... well I'm talking folders in s30v and straight knives in INFI so I like them both for what I use them for. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
 
new said:
just to clarify for the orginal poster, the subject seems to have drifted just a tad bit.....


originally, we were talking about infi vs. s30v, and that conversation has shifted into infi vs. cpm 3v....


just to clarify...
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true, but s30v and INFI are two totally different class of steels. They do not even belong in the same conversation. It's like comparing an AWD van to a Jeep Rubicon. They both overlap in duties but are meant for totally different purposes.
 
yoda4561 said:
I think the damage was more due to feherman grinding their knives optimized more for cutting ability than abuse, relying on 3v's inherent toughness to prevent damage. On the one 3v blade I have I've noticed it's quite prone to deformation when ground very thin (it's a zero ground edge, no secondary bevel) . 3v is pretty close to Infi as far as categorizing steels. S30v isn't even in the same league in the toughness dept. It is quite strong, almost all modern stainless steels are strong. Where they suffer is when they're pushed beyond that level of strength, and snap instead of flex. S30v is no exception. Striders are build with very stout, full thickness spines to overcome that disadvantage.
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Fehrman markets the knife for hard use. Should not the entire build of the knife then be for hard use?? I have factory Busses designed for hard use that are some of the sharpest knives I have ever seen and they can cut like mad. It is possible to put a screaming edge on a knife and still have it for hard use.

Maybe Fehrman was still in the edge experimentation phase to determine which angle is the best compromise.
 
Yeah, by that post I meant they undershot their target strength by a bit, relying too much on 3v's material abilities and not quite enough steel at the edge. IIRC it was a frozen tree limb that did the damage? If it were just prying and chopping unfrozen hardwoods there wouldn't be a problem. It was my understanding that it was the steel behind the edge bevel itself that rippled, and not just the edge itself.
 
yoda4561 said:
Yeah, by that post I meant they undershot their target strength by a bit, relying too much on 3v's material abilities and not quite enough steel at the edge. IIRC it was a frozen tree limb that did the damage? If it were just prying and chopping unfrozen hardwoods there wouldn't be a problem. It was my understanding that it was the steel behind the edge bevel itself that rippled, and not just the edge itself.
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Frozen tree limb, that has rock particles in it, combined with a thinner cutting edge equals severe damage. That would be true for any steel
 
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