Initial belt order help, please

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drysideshooter

Joined
Dec 6, 2011
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I will be picking up my Esteem grinder around the Christmas Holiday time, and will be getting it directly from Brett. I won't have it set up until some time in February. I will order and have a heat treat oven by then as well. (in the process of building a new house and shop).

I want to get together a belt order and have been using the search function and reading as much as I can about it, plus referencing the three knife books that we have. I will be using the grinder for profiling and finishing and will probably start with some 440C. I will probably use micarta for the first few knives. Here is what I was thinking:

36+ 984F Cubitron II Ceramic (3M)
60YF 967F Cubitron Ceramic(3M)
120 RB406JF Aluminum Oxide (Hermes)
220 RB406JF Aluminum Oxide (Hermes)
400 RB406JF Aluminum Oxide (Hermes)
Coarse Scotchbrite
Fine Scotchbrite

I would like to end up with a nice satin finish. Will probably heat treat after the initial grinding with the 220? Any recommendations on what paper to order for hand sanding, in addition to advice regarding belts, would be very much appreciated.
 
I stop at 400 now before HT, stopping at 220 left too many scratches for the black scale to get into. But that was before I got my Esteem. I'm sure it would be easier to grind now.

I just started buying belts, so I can't give much info yet, I'm still in the tryout stages with the different belts, to see which I like better.

I do know, that you want to do most of your grinding before HT, so get them nice and smooth before, then it should be easier once they are done.
 
cubitrons are a good choice. I personally like the 120 ceramic belts for metal, and use the 120 AO's for handle material. I also prefer the trizact belts over AO for the finer finishing. I typically use the A160, A45, and A30. Rhynowet Redline is the best sandpaper I've found. I use a bunch of 400, and some 600/800/1200 also.
 
Thanks for the information. Jason, I just looked at your website and really like the finish I see on your blades. Are those finished by hand sanding length wise?
 
Here's some advice - order a bunch of belts.
You will always use ALL of the belts you have. Don't worry about getting belts you don't need.
You'll need 'em.
If you discover you need some of different grits - order them.
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
You will always use ALL of the belts you have. Don't worry about getting belts you don't need.
If you discover you need some of different grits - order them.
Click to expand...

That's wisdom, right there.

Yes, 95% of my blades are hand sanded. I usually go fresh 120 ceramic, worn A160 trizact, then to hand sanding with the 400 rhynowet. Most of the time I stop at a clean 400 grit, but sometimes I'll go up to 800 or 1200 on a fancy knife.
 
Very good advice from the guys. I too like to have some 984 ceramic belts in 120 grit.

Just a quick word from a rookie. You might want to get some sandpaper in 150 or 220 grit. You have got to grind pretty nice to be able to start with hand sanding at 400 grit. As a newer maker there's that dreaded 2" mark and other imperfection that may need to be hand sanded. They guys above probably don't have that issue.

I've seen Karls work in person and it is amazing.
 
Thanks again. I figured from everything that I have read that I would order quite a few belts. They won't go bad, and I know they will get used.

Thanks for the additional information on how you finish your blades Jason. What type of sanding blocks do you use? From what I have seen, it looks like most folks make themselves some sanding blocks out of some precision ground steel? Cut the Rhynowet in strips about the height of the blade? Do you not use scotch bright belts at all?

What about sharpening, do you do it with the belt grinder or some other way?
 
Get on Youtube and look up Nick Wheeler's hand sanding videos. He can show it way better (and DO it way better) than I can.
 
I would like to suggest a just as well known but perhaps today more acceptable steel such as CPM154. Frank
 
I have watched a couple of Nick Wheeler sanding bids. Great stuff.

Frank, why CPM154? Is it an easier steel for a newb, or just a superior steel in other ways?
 
I have the same question.

What "number" of the Cubitron II's to order? 947, 977YF etc. ?

Also I know that many like the Trizact belts. I purchased quite a few of the "gator" trizact belts for my 2x42 (that will gather dust now no doubt.) but does anyone like the trizact over the trizact gators?

Thanks!
 
Not to speak for Frank, but I have read here that 440C got a bad rep over cheap Chinese imports labeled 440 that were in fact 440A or 440B instead of 440C.
 
I have some Cubirton II 984 in 120 grit. They work better than my cheapie ceramic 60 grit. I also hear very good things about the 3M 977 and (I think it's called) 967. basically I have not been disappointed in any 3M belt I have ever used. It's been my experience that they are more expensive up front, but as cheap or cheaper in the long run. Some guys like the Gator belts, some don't. They like a lot of belts are not for everything but certainly have their place.

There are a lot of good belts out there and I have certainly not tried them all. I also work mostly with carbon steel, the high alloy stuff is a lot tougher to grind. Get some variety and try them out. You will soon find a combo that works best for you. I just discovered cork belts and really like them for some things, mostly removing scratches/refining finishes. Just my .02 as I am pretty much a rookie.
 
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M forge said:
I have some Cubirton II 984 in 120 grit. They work better than my cheapie ceramic 60 grit. I also hear very good things about the 3M 977 and (I think it's called) 967. basically I have not been disappointed in any 3M belt I have ever used. It's been my experience that they are more expensive up front, but as cheap or cheaper in the long run. Some guys like the Gator belts, some don't. They like a lot of belts are not for everything but certainly have their place.

There are a lot of good belts out there and I have certainly not tried them all. I also work mostly with carbon steel, the high alloy stuff is a lot tougher to grind. Get some variety and try them out. You will soon find a combo that works best for you. I just discovered cork belts and really like them for some things, mostly removing scratches/refining finishes. Just my .02 as I am pretty much a rookie.
Click to expand...

When and how do you use the cork belt? Did you prepare the belt using the extended break in process? Thanks for the info.
 
drysideshooter, I sent you a message. Where are you in E. WA. Jess
 
PT, I use the cork belts for refining the finish after using regular belts. I will use regular belts to say 400 and then go to a cork 220, 400 and 600 if I am going that high. I have just been experimenting. Theoretically you probably should be able to go regular 400 and then cork 400, but I always find at least one pesky scratch left. You don't have to spend much time with each cork belt. They remove very little material but are great for removing/refining scratches. If you want to do a machine finish they are great, and they also save a good bit of time on the hand sanding.

I did not do much to break mine in, but I do recommend it. They seem to get better with use, and they also do very well wet but that is pretty messy so I just dunk the blade a lot and the belts get fairly damp. If you get some you may want to take a big chunk of bar stock or some angle iron or something and run them in with that. They are a bit strange as the 600 grit cork looked like 36 grit to me, but its not. Someone else could maybe advise you better, that is just my experience as I have only use them for about 3 blades so far.
 
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