Inkosi Ceramic Ball Groove Removed

S

staysharp^

Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
175
Hello folks,

I spoke with a CRK dealer today regarding the Inkosi. CRk is no longer machining the grove in blade for the ceramic ball. CRK said that they did testing and found that the grove did not offer anything and it was cost effective to remove. The grove is not guaranteed to be perfect either, how would you even know if that ball was sitting in that grove 100 percent in the first place. How do you folks feel about this change?
 
I feel that I'm glad the small Inkosi and large Inkosi I purchased from a board member have the groove. The lock up does seem better compared to the many 25's I have but I can understand the manufacturing problems getting all those pieces to line up at Chris Reeve standards. It must have been a yield problem for them.
 
Wavicle said:
I feel that I'm glad the small Inkosi and large Inkosi I purchased from a board member have the groove. The lock up does seem better compared to the many 25's I have but I can understand the manufacturing problems getting all those pieces to line up at Chris Reeve standards. It must have been a yield problem for them.
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Agreed. I'm very glad to have purchased both a large and small Inkosi with the groove prior to the change. I can understand their desire to remove it (time / cost), but I thoroughly enjoy the lockup the ball & groove provide.
 
My 25 has no groove and I do not feel I missed something.
Now that feeling got confirmed.
:)
 
Seems since Chris has left daily operations they are more concerned with production capacity and costs savings rather than quality fit, feel, performance & finish. It seems to me that CRK is no longer the pinnacle/value that it used to be and this is just the latest example.

I understand the business aspect, but the company was founded on precision not on production capacity. Obviously the engineering staff felt it offered something in terms of design performance, guess the bean counters won out.
 
dwdickey said:
Seems since Chris has left daily operations they are more concerned with production capacity and costs savings rather than quality fit, feel, performance & finish. It seems to me that CRK is no longer the pinnacle/value that it used to be and this is just the latest example.

I understand the business aspect, but the company was founded on precision not on production capacity. Obviously the engineering staff felt it offered something in terms of design performance, guess the bean counters won out.
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I dunno, this opinion is spouted on this forum anytime there is a change of any nature. I don't get the feeling CRK is chock full of "bean counters". Sure it's a big shop, but we are not talking IBM, or even Spyderco here. It's a family company, still.

Here's is a thought:........how bout the groove was a fail? Maybe not all, but enough to be an issue. How bout twenty knives came back with some weird lock stick that was never a problem on the 25? Do you honestly think milling that tiny groove was the difference between profit and bankruptcy on a $500 knife?

How 'bout we all give CRK the benefit of the doubt and stop thinking the worst of these good people every time they make the slightest change to anything. Myself, I know of no decrease in quality and fit and finish, but it sure makes a good story.

If the groove was a crappy idea prone to problems, then I say good riddance.
 
I would have to agree with Kidcongo on this one. Knowing a good bit about CNC machining, AutoCAD and milling and still preferring the Seb 25 I can't see that the groove and detent was a plus or minus in this design. Since Chris left approximately two years before anyone had a clue there was no change in the quality of CRK knives there is little reason to believe that there would be now. Anne is a smart lady and I doubt the people that are working the business would have stayed to turn out an inferior product.
 
kidcongo said:
I dunno, this opinion is spouted on this forum anytime there is a change of any nature. I don't get the feeling CRK is chock full of "bean counters". Sure it's a big shop, but we are not talking IBM, or even Spyderco here. It's a family company, still.

Here's is a thought:........how bout the groove was a fail? Maybe not all, but enough to be an issue. How bout twenty knives came back with some weird lock stick that was never a problem on the 25? Do you honestly think milling that tiny groove was the difference between profit and bankruptcy on a $500 knife?

How 'bout we all give CRK the benefit of the doubt and stop thinking the worst of these good people every time they make the slightest change to anything. Myself, I know of no decrease in quality and fit and finish, but it sure makes a good story.

If the groove was a crappy idea prone to problems, then I say good riddance.
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Agreed. Well put, Cody. :thumbup:
 
I agree, KidCongo. Just like any other business, CRK makes changes to their products that they believe are in the best interest of their products, their customers, or their bottom line. There are a lot of companies out there consistently lowering their quality to remain profitable, but I think we can all agree that CRK isn't one of them. They're not the type of company that would intentionally sacrifice quality to save money, as quality is what has made them so successful in the first place.

As much as I love my large / small Inkosi with the groove, the lack of it would not prevent me from buying them again. Just like every other CRK I own, they are amazing knives. With or without the groove the quality is second to none, just as it's always been.
 
Its strange how a SHOT Anne/CRK pointed out the groove to people as an improvement over the design used on the 25. Now its not needed? Something must have developed over time since then. It would have been easier to leave the groove in unless it was cut by hand then to remove it. Removing it takes changing code and process along with having to QA the product over again. I remember that when the Inkosi first came out some people had issues with lock stick. It may be that if the groove if not precise enough it can lead to small numbers of sticky knives. Now that would really add to the cost of production. My Inkosi is perfect and would not change the grove on it, but I have never handed one with out the groove so have no idea on the impact its removal would have to the feel of my knife.
 
dwdickey said:
Seems since Chris has left daily operations they are more concerned with production capacity and costs savings rather than quality fit, feel, performance & finish. It seems to me that CRK is no longer the pinnacle/value that it used to be and this is just the latest example.

I understand the business aspect, but the company was founded on precision not on production capacity. Obviously the engineering staff felt it offered something in terms of design performance, guess the bean counters won out.
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Seems your speculation is not true.
Well, no "seems" to it really, your speculation is flat out not true.
 
I got my first CRK back in 2002, and the new ones I have that were made in 2015 and 2016 are every bit equal in F&F; and in my examples, the factory edges are way better/sharper and more evenly/consistently ground out of the box than the edge my 2002 Sebenza came with.

FWIW.

Jim
 
James Y said:
I got my first CRK back in 2002, and the new ones I have that were made in 2015 and 2016 are every bit equal in F&F; and in my examples, the factory edges are way better/sharper and more evenly/consistently ground out of the box than the edge my 2002 Sebenza came with.

FWIW.

Jim
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Very good point, indeed.

My small CRK collection includes a small Regular in ATS-34 from 1997, a large Regular in S30V from 2008, and more recent Sebs thru to 2015, as well as a new one waiting for me today.. The legendary CRK quality is absolutely there consistently throughout the years. Other than the obvious EDC wear on some of them, they all feel good as new. Indeed, they do. :)
 
The groove in machining time is negligible. They save maybe 25 cents by leaving it off. In the grand scheme of things, the choice was likely more for user benefit than to make more money.
 
Can anyone post a pic of the groove? I've considered getting an Inkosi; I'm curious what it looks like.
 
socom1970 said:
Can anyone post a pic of the groove? I've considered getting an Inkosi; I'm curious what it looks like.
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This is a large Inkosi from Blade Show 2016. Looks the same on the small. The ceramic ball on the end of the lock bar falls into this groove and creates a wonderful, secure lockup. Apparently there was only one run of the large Inkosi with the groove, but the small had it for over a year of production.

 
I considered the groove as a big improvement, which, as said by CRK, improves the lock stability. Really don't understand how it can be harmful. Upset.
 
I've got the small Inkosi and it has the groove. It seems to me that having the groove there is more contact area when the knife is in the locked position (detent ball to lock face) and removing the groove there would only be a fraction of lock face to detent ball.
It would also seem that there's more to it than just removing the groove, the lock face would also have to have been re-machined, also with the groove it would seem (to me) the knife would be more "locked in".
I'd like to see comparison pics of the the 2 designs side by side.
BTW, I can't find the large Inkosi anywhere and now....I'm not sure if I still want one after this change.
 
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