Inkosi Ceramic Ball Groove Removed

And there it is.... this thread has gone full circle... in the first post there is a quote that CRK said it was not necessary........ there it is!!!
 
john98294 said:
I've got the small Inkosi and it has the groove. It seems to me that having the groove there is more contact area when the knife is in the locked position (detent ball to lock face) and removing the groove there would only be a fraction of lock face to detent ball.
It would also seem that there's more to it than just removing the groove, the lock face would also have to have been re-machined, also with the groove it would seem (to me) the knife would be more "locked in".
I'd like to see comparison pics of the the 2 designs side by side.
BTW, I can't find the large Inkosi anywhere and now....I'm not sure if I still want one after this change.
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We've had the umnumzaan for almost a decade, and the 25 for about half that time. Neither had the groove, and neither knife had a problem with lock-up. If anything, the groove might cause a problem with lock-up, which is why they likely deleted it.
 
I really love this forum, but sometimes all the speculation drives me crazy. Guys, here is the deal: unless you work for CRK, you cannot speculate with any amount of certainty. CRK have been making folding knives for a long time, and I can guarantee they know more about their knives and their manufacturing process than you or I ever will. Just because you think the ball groove is better, does not mean it is. CRK seem very methodical about their development approach. I for one trust that whatever changes they decide to make are beneficial and well thought out.

Now if you have some sort of conclusive empirical data from an experiment that you conducted, I am all ears. Otherwise, I would just sit back and relax. CRK isn't being run by a bunch of half wit board members. It is run by Anne and her team, and they know what they are doing :D
 
Ianmorrow21 said:
I really love this forum, but sometimes all the speculation drives me crazy. Guys, here is the deal: unless you work for CRK, you cannot speculate with any amount of certainty. CRK have been making folding knives for a long time, and I can guarantee they know more about their knives and their manufacturing process than you or I ever will. Just because you think the ball groove is better, does not mean it is. CRK seem very methodical about their development approach. I for one trust that whatever changes they decide to make are beneficial and well thought out.

Now if you have some sort of conclusive empirical data from an experiment that you conducted, I am all ears. Otherwise, I would just sit back and relax. CRK isn't being run by a bunch of half wit board members. It is run by Anne and her team, and they know what they are doing :D
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I was about to compose my thoughts and add them to the discussion, but it seems you just did that for me!
 
It is all about small incremental improvement! I have a grooved large Inkosi and it is great, but I can see where issues with fit could cause a problem. I will trust that CRK knows their knives:)
 
Empirical data are the best. But they will be kept as secret. That's why we speculate.
For sure Anne knows what they are doing. But that doesn't stop me from trying to understand the design by myself.
 
The unfortunate part is, CRK could come right out and tell us why it was removed and there would still be people that would argue that it was needed or not.
A fickle bunch we can be...I will just appreciate the warranty and service if and when I need it.. Almost makes that little groove's existence a moot point.
 
The matter could be with warranty work. I could see it as being a simple solution to be able to provide easier warranty service with the phased out 25 and the new improved inkosi. The move to discontinue the groove simplifies blade replacements and service to both models.
 
staysharp^ said:
Hello folks,

I spoke with a CRK dealer today regarding the Inkosi. CRk is no longer machining the grove in blade for the ceramic ball. CRK said that they did testing and found that the grove did not offer anything and it was cost effective to remove. The grove is not guaranteed to be perfect either, how would you even know if that ball was sitting in that grove 100 percent in the first place. How do you folks feel about this change?
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interesting... when did that change take place?


the below text in italics is copied today from the link this link... http://chrisreeve.com/inkosi.html#inkosidesign

While challenging the standards of the Integral Lock®, the Inkosi is the most over built knife of its kind, a true testament of strength. Using a ceramic ball as an interface for the lock bar to the blade tang, it ensures a lifetime of consistent lock up.
 
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If you order a groove from CRK will they send you some spares in case you want to use them on your Inkosi? How hard are they to install?
:D;)
 
staysharp^ said:
It's been nice to read how you guys feel. I am starting to focus my attention to other great knife makers. Chris Reeve Knives is changing. I will not be buying an inkosi now or ever. Company is cutting cost but yet the profit margin is already huge in the product they are manufacturing. Losing interest fast! It's okay though, plenty of good knives to buy from other companies. :)
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I would think this may be part of the issue. In their business model, they must walk a fine line between maintaining quality and sustaining a certain profit margin percentage per item for the long term future of the company in order to keep the doors open. I've no idea what their margin is, but I doubt it's "huge". Not with raw materials costing more, higher wages for skilled workers, higher employee compensation packages with health care, etc..Utility cost increases. On and on.

If one looks over the "mid-tech" (and I'd place CRK in this catagory simply based on cost) there is a very crowded field now in this area. The number of frame locks in this price range is amazing, and most are quality knives gaining a following.

I'm not sure owning a CRK, Hinderer, Strider, et al, has the same "cache" as it once had maybe 5 or 10 years ago. The selection of knives in this same price range is amazing. I do notice though that used CRK prices, like Hinderer too, seem to have fallen some which I attribute to the crowded market in this price range. There are just a bunch of cool looking knives out there now which most more than likely can trace their success back to CRK innovations, priced same as CRK blades. Having a CRK just isn't as big a deal anymore like they used to be. IMHO.

So CRK is constrained by the market place to run as tight and streamlined operation as possible. This small change, while maybe only saving pocket change per knife, will add up to a decent amount over a period of years.

Other makers do not offer this ceramic ball for instance, and still make a heckuva knife, as CRK still does. I doubt it effects the operation or quality of the knife one way or another in any meaningful way. Other knives do not seem to need it and are still as tough as nails.

One thing I'd actually like to see from CRK, is a budget line, like the Byrd knives from Spyderco. I think this would help introduce many new folks to CRK knives who hesitate to spend that much on one knife purchase. Still American made, but maybe with different handle materials and a lower end steel. If they are pleased with the budget piece, it could lead to the purchase of the higher cost model. Dunno.

If all that rambling makes sense. Lol.
 
so is the OP stating that the ceramic ball is also not present... or is he saying the ceramic ball is still there but the groove only is not present.... if so is there another form of indent that the ceramic ball locks up in? I suppose that I really need to call CRK and get to the bottom of this.
 
Ceramic ball is there, groove is not. The ball locks up on the plain tang, same as the Umnum, 25, and now the Inkosi.
 
I don't get the fascination and all the discussion of the ball groove, (ie. when is started, when it stopped, it's better), etc.

- Are all the questions on when they were produced to see if one can track an example down for collection purposes since it was made for a short time?
- Are there actual tests that prove that the ball groove (contrary to what CRK has stated) improved the knife?
- Is there any proof outside of the hearsay comment from a BF member that states that they heard from a "CRK Dealer" that the move was done to reduce cost?

I have been using and collecting Sebenzas in all their various models for 12 years. In that time I have never had one fail. So I can't question if a ball groove would have prevented it. I have never made a sale, a trade or bought (nor have I been asked by others) if the item in question had a ball groove.

I guess I am the epitome of a CRK "fan boy" then since I trust when they say they put out the very best product that they can, that I believe them.
 
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