Input on a first knife design?

OK I don't mean to keep bumping myself up top and annoying you guys, but I like to be thorough and have it right before I jump onto the metal. Is there any structural reason not to have a straight spine or mostly aesthetic? I tried a curvature and it just seems bloated to me now, I've spent probably a couple hours trying to redo some of it. Just can't get it to look "right" without that straight back, though maybe it will look better on metal. The handles (I think) are coming along a lot better now.

Honestly, I was trying to mix the koster and Rick blade geometries from here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-Results!!!!!?highlight=camp+knife+challenge

Here is the curved stuff with fixed handle:

2gvkaci.jpg



Then tried raising the tip up some :

illwll.jpg


Doesn't seem to look right?

EDIT:

Added a curve to the edge. It looks way better, but I'm unsure if this will hurt cooking abilities?

211nlaw.jpg
 
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Yeah I had tried curving the spine a tiny bit on those three. I'll keep at it. Again, thanks for all the input. Soon enough I'll have the weather to start grinding away!
 
I have just started making knives myself so my critique would probably be useless. I like to draw up my designs and colorize them to get a better feel for what they will look like finished.
Here is yours.
notmyknife.jpg
 
One other suggestion... when drawing up the design, I find it useful to draw and keep several versions, instead of erasing and redrawing the same one. The point being if you hit on something that looks okay, you might want to go back to it... which will be easier if you haven't erased it. Generally, I do this by taking the billet of steel I'll be using, tracing the outline of the billet several times on a piece of paper (so I know what my size limitations are), and then drawing each design into the "billet box".

When I hit on something I might want to do variations on, I start a second page with more billet boxes, and transcribe that design, making the changes on subsequent drawings.

In the end I have several pictures to choose from, not just one. Yeah, I waste a little paper, but it can be helpful to see the progression of ideas.
 
Will, that is very awesome holy cow! What software didyou8 use? It actually really makes that design look much better. Thanks for that.

Try, great piece of advice. I think I'm really getting close to exactly what I want. I I'm definitely seeing how compromises have to be made. I will definitely try this.

Will I forgot to ask also, I can't tell much changed in your model, but you said critique, what would you change?
 
I used Claris Draw for this. It is part of an old, multi-part software group called Claris Works.
I don't really have any critique of it. If it were mine I might change the bolster in front and add one in back but that is just personal opinion and should not carry too much if any weight.
FWIW here are the changes I mean.
someoneelsesknife.jpg
 
Thanks for all your input Will, that may be a better way to go about it actually. More butt there to hammer down too. Now to get to the grinding down process if only this weather would get warmer lol.
 
I like the first design the most. I might make a couple of minor changes but they are just my ideas. 1) I would not have the blade quite as full at the tip. 2) I would change the spine from tip to butt to either be flat or have a sight hump back. Just my .02. I think this is going to make a very nice knife.
Tim
 
Fletch - my current available tools all together are a bench grinder, files, hack saw. I will likely use a file to do most of the bevel work, though we humongous flea market near my house may yield a cheap belt grinder. My buddy has a belt grinder, not sure what kind... likely a 4 by X type.

Tim do you mean my first design on the first page or this page? I will likely try to have a very slight hump to the spine, but need to restart my drawing to do that which I haven't had time for lately. You say you wouldn't have the blade as full at the tip, you mean I should bring the grind down so that the bevel comes closer to the tip than cutting into the spine as it is now?

-thanks
 
Stick with the files and sandpaper. I wouldn't use the bench grinder to do any of the bevel work. You can do an entire knife with a hacksaw, files, and sandpaper. If you decide you really want to keep going with making knives and want to get a grinder save up for a Craftsman 2x42 and put a glass platen on it. The thing with any grinder is while they allow you to hog metal off pretty quick, it also means you can screw up your knife even quicker. If you don't have a vice they are handy to have and get yourself a couple of C-clamps and spring clamps. If you don't have a vice you can C-clamp a piece of wood to a table then clamp your knife on that with the spring clamps while you're working on it.
 
I do have a vice and clamps to work with, forgot to mention that. I didn't really plan on using the bench grinder, good advice I probably will screw it up faster that way hah.

Now I'm trying to decide on a forced gas propane brick forge or a charcoal forge for HT, and how the hell I decide on a bevel angle and if I need a secondary bevel. That's what all the reading I've found is for of course.
 
Double post; Sorry.
 
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I love working with French curves. It makes it way easier to create new profiles.

There are different kinds of survival knives. Military survival knives are designed to pry, dig, pierce through a fuselage, and maybe defend oneself.

Prying is better done with a pry bar. Digging is better done with a spade. I am guessing that you won't find yourself behind enemy lines, in a downed helicopter.

There are also different philosophies of survival. A knife may not be necessary, depending on what other gear you have when you get lost.

Nettles and other weeds would be better handled with a sling blade, and I always find a place to pitch my tent where there are no nettles.

Splitting wood is best done with an axe.

I don't know what you mean by bushwhacking, but machetes, and choppers are good for clearing brambles and lopping limbs.

There is no one knife that does all things well.

Including a "hammer" feature is something I have never done, but I think it just makes the project over complicated, for a first build.

Thicker steel and a longer blade mean more work to make the knife. More filing/grinding. That could get discouraging.

For what you are describing, I would make a bushcrafter patterned knife, about 4 3/4" for blade length, .141" for thickness. A fairly steep flat bevel; maybe 8 or 9 degrees per side, and a microbevel. Better yet, convex the edge, or give it a stropped microbevel.

The link below is for a knife I recently made. It is pretty much what I just described, except with a stick tang, and a little bit shorter.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1034129-All-Purpose-4-quot-Knife-in-CPM154-SOLD
 
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Thanks for the input redsquid. I don't expect this to replace a hammer/axe/prybar etc. I like to hike when I camp, and so clearing a campsite isn't my concern, this knife holds more of the purpose of a good tool to carry when hiking. I'd rather carry one or two tools for emergency than to carry a toolbox, so the knife makes sense as one of those tools. Defence, clearing my path, and stopping to cook, etc. I feel a shorter blade with a smaller thickness wouldn't do well in this situation, but again I don't want to use a machete/khukri to cook and I don't want a chef knife to cut down bush. My expectations are more of an all-around moderately heavy duty knife. This isn't meant to disregard your post, as I went through your whole build on that knife and plan to try and implement some of your suggestions. I might make the blade a bit smaller, and change it up a bit closer to a bushcraft knife, while still keeping the size and heft of my original design in mind.

I understand a larger knife takes longer, but I have already done some restoration on steel and definitely understand the sheer amount of time it takes to hand work steel.

I will post up any changes I come up with, again all this input is great. I enjoy the criticism as it helps me hone in exactly what I want before wasting my time and resources on a blade that comes out to something I don't find useful.

EDIT: Instead of topping my post every time, here is what I've come up with next from a clean sheet. I liked the way my handle was looking so I tried to mimic it here. I changed the blade up a decent amount, and gave more of an overall small arch to the spine. Here it is, now the edge is under 7" but a maximum width close to 2".

vrpzrc.jpg



EDIT #2: I have been reading about the khukri and other camping knives, and thought maybe trying to add weight to the tip end of the blade and give it a bit of angle on the edge may suit my all-purpose hopes better. I've straightened out the handle, and added some more curve to the blade. Handle looks almost too thin, not sure. I guess some of this needs to be hashed out when looking at the steel or on cardboard. Here is currently where I'm at. Also- I know I need some french curves, I still need to order some or something.

2cxer9c.jpg


If I do something more like this, do I need an angled grind where the spine drops? I've been searching through the forums and every time someone has a somewhat dramatic drop spine to tip, they put in another bevel that follows that drop. Is this necessary structurally?
 
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I imagine slicing an onion with a kukhri, and it just seems awkward. I like the design on top better.

Here is a video clip of comparative chopping tests. No doubt there are more videos out there similar. The Becker BK9 is more like your top design, while the Schrade is more like your bottom one. The tester here does not mention blade thickness, but that information can be found from online retailers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYML9e1Puy8

Please post updates. I would be interested to know how your project goes.

Andy/squid
 
I would get rid of those points between the finger and the blade.....very bad design.
 
Redsquid- thanks for the points and link, sweet video I will try to mimic! Definitely going to keep this updated and take pictures along the way as a newbie WIP.

Stacy- do you say that because it is pointed, or generally don't think grooves for your hand are good there? I was having difficulty drawing such a small part a smooth round, figured I could just round it when filing. Might be tough to do on a first knife anyway.

Meeting up with my friend who has steel to use tomorrow. It's 1095 so I don't plan on heat treating myself on this one. Hoping it isn't that much harder to shape than 1084 but free is free right? I can spare a bit more elbow grease.
 
The handle material that covers such a thin point would chip or break off immediately in uses. A point like that isn't exactly finger friendly either.

Look at some knife photos from the guys who make the most desired blades and you will see that even and smooth transitions are the norm. Handles with fitted or deep finger grooves are only a fit if your hand is the same as the one that the grooves are ground for. A little palm swell and a slight indent for the index finger works much better.
 
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