Intended Use of a Tactical Folding Knife!

Samurai6

Samurai6

Joined
Oct 16, 1998
Messages
2,395
The intended use of a tactical folder.

The stick test in real time. Is your folding tactical knife up to this kind of action?

Don't suffer the same fate as the good looking guy on the right! If he had a stronger grip, he might have been sorry he was carrying a liner lock. ;)

Tactical Folder Testing!
 
The guy on the right is using the knife for offense. The guy on the left smacks it away then steps back. I wouldn't expect my hand to stand up to that smack. That's why I wouldn't attack some dude with a stick. If the guy with the stick came after me, that would be a different scenario which wouldn't cause me to lunge out like that (and make myself vulnerable).
 
A reasonable assessment, but fighting isn't like that. If the guy with the stick is the bad guy, and he takes a swing at you, you might close in to negate his reach advantage, and you might disable him, or you might not, in which case he may push you away, or step back, and again get that shot at your hand. If you are quick, he might miss your hand, and just catch the blade of the knife...in which case, you hope like heck that the blade doesn't collapse on your hand.

All in all, its a mess where sticks fly and knives flash, you just don't really know what's going to happen. That's why I like folding knives that pass the stick test.
 
No thats what an M-16 with a 100 round drum is for!;) Just bring the leather trench coat and plenty of ammo!:cool:
 
ThinkoftheChildren was right. I thought the exact same thing. Why take the offensive with a blade in your hand? Unless your opponent has a really heavy club and he is swinging with murderous intent, a stick is no match for a blade. The assailant with the stick knows this, too. If I had to go into the offensive in that video situation, I would take advantage of the fact my opponent was right-handed like me. I would lead in with my left arm and try to take the blunt of the blow, while thrusting freely with my bladed right hand. The assailant is then forced to either back up, take a stab in his left arm, or take a more serious cut elsewhere. That situation totally favors the knife man, but only if he soesn't do anything stupid.
 
Steve (and others),

I think we have a religious war here, meaning that most people just won't change their minds no matter what they see or read. Certain issues come up from time to time on the forums that people can fight for hours about and never ever agree. Usually this is mostly limited to the politics forum, but the "Emerson Controversy" seems to be another example, along with the REKAT fights, Mad Dog threads, and Cliff Stamp reviews. Now before anyone thinks I'm singling anyone out here, I am one of those people who, on certain issues (including this one) am extremely unlikely to change my mind. I don't think anyone's mind is being changed here. I am curious what the fence-sitters think though...
 
My original post was not to say that I don't think that lock strength is not a big concern on a defensive folder. I realize that the kind of stress being applied to the folder in the video is a very real possibility in a bad situation. I was just saying that I would not attempt the move which was done in the video (he was asking for it in my opinion). I know that fighting is not choreographed in real life but as komondor suggested, I would try to close space with my weak side so as to attack with my right.
Anyway, the issue at hand (no pun intended) is the necessity of tactical folders with locks that can take a hell of a beating. This is why I appreciate companies publishing lock strength ratings for their defensive folders. When Sal Glesser tells me that my Gunting can take over 600 pounds of force, I believe him (especially since testing showed that it could take over 1000 lbs). This is one of the reasons that I chose the Gunting.
This video is just another reason why I spine-whack my folders before serious use. To those who say that spine-whacking is a waste of time: I guess you don't carry knives for defensive purposes. If you do carry a defensive folder without spine-whacking it, watch that video a couple of times. Then tell me that I'm wasting my time.
 
Komondor,
<b>"Unless your opponent has a really heavy club and he is swinging with murderous intent, a stick is no match for a blade. The assailant with the stick knows this, too."</b>

You've never spent any time working sticks have you?
Trust me, in that scenario, I'd gladly offer to trade the guy my nice sharp Commander for his silly little stick! ;)

<b>"I would lead in with my left arm and try to take the blunt of the blow, while thrusting freely with my bladed right hand."</b>

Sacrificing a limb is an acceptable option sometimes, and it's probably the only hope the blade man has, but the problem with it is you're ASSUMING the guy with the "stick" is going to take what you offer him. Only a fool would.

Given equal skill levels between the two opponents, it all comes down to two things. Speed and Reach.

The stick has a decided advantage in both.
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook

You've never spent any time working sticks have you?
Trust me, in that scenario, I'd gladly offer to trade the guy my nice sharp Commander for his silly little stick! ;)
Click to expand...

Ken, one of these days you and I are going to agree on something
and we are going to sh** ourselves.

In all honesty, I am not a self defense expert. Not even close.
It's just that sometimes I wonder about the practicality (don't forget I'm a realist) of traditional defense wisdom when the concept of having to defend yourself against attack is given to an infinite array of circumstances and outcomes. Anything can happen.

This is what I based my observation on: I work part time in a bevvy store. If some robber comes in with one of those whippy sticks and asks for money, I am going to laugh at him, then approach him. I WILL then subdue him, no question about it. If I have to take one or two strikes against my weak arm, so be it. That dude is toast when I get on top of him though. The same guy comes in with a knife.....Holy Sh**!! Tell me you wouldn't be scared. I would be like, okay guy, just calm down and relax.................

Maybe what it comes down to is thinking the stick does have a tactical advantage over a knife, but the weapon that is the knife is more deadly if it does strike. I think the assailant with the stick is fully aware of this, too. Psychological advantage: knife man
 
Komondor,

I suspect there's a lot we agree on, we just haven't gotten to those topics yet. :D

<b>"It's just that sometimes I wonder about the practicality (don't forget I'm a realist) of traditional defense wisdom when the concept of having to defend yourself against attack is given to an infinite array of circumstances and outcomes. Anything can happen."</b>

There's a reason that "traditional wisdom" becomes traditional. Combat weapons skills are not passed down by the losers, they're passed down by the winners. The losers are busy having dirt shoveled in their faces.

However,the way you use the word "traditional" I get the impression that what you really mean is "antiquated." True, a stick or a knife is less than desirable when facing a firearm, but in the scenario presented, knife against stick, I'll take the stick. Is that my FIRST preference? Heck no, I'd rather have my Kimber .45, or perhaps something along the lines of one of Jerry Hossom's Wakizashis, but if it's stick or knife, I'll take the stick and there are not a lot of "common criminals" (if there is such a thing) that is going to beat me in that scenario. It's a no brainer.

If the BG walking into your bevvy store with a stick knows how to use it, I promise you, you'll soon learn very painfully that your self confidence in that scenario is probably a false sense of security because you really don't understand the true capabilities of the weapon you're facing.

It's understandable. The average rattan Escrima stick really doesn't look like much of anything. It's short, it's almost feather light, and it doesn't even have a point on it.

One solid hit from one is all it will take to forever change your mind about them though. ;)

As for the "psychological advantage" well...
I hope the other guy laughs at my silly little stick. Don't take it seriously, just ignore it and charge right in Mr. BG, it can't hurt THAT much can it? :eek:

Lastly,
Yes, anything CAN happen in a fight. An unarmed man might beat the gun, the man with the knife might beat the stick, the guy with the stick might beat the sword etc...

But would you rather go into the fight on a "might" or a "probably?"
 
Thats why I also own a folding Ram baton;) . It sure looks like it will do very little, but get hit by it...:eek: :barf: :barf: :p :D
 
Let's not forget that the reason rattan is used for stick practice is because it frays rather than chipping, lowering the poke-your-eye-out index.

I practice with rattan, but my "fighting" sticks are a pair of black hardwood mothers. These will break limbs, and a thrust to the throat with a stick goes a long way towards shutting down an opponent with a blade (who is out of reach of you when you do it).

Confidence is good, but making the universal statement that "I'll take down a guy with a wimpy stick anytime I want" sounds like over-confidence.

YMMV,
 
General, Ken

I agree with some of your points, but here are some VERY important points to ponder:

1) You can grab the assailant's weapon if it is a baton. You CANNOT grab the assailant's weapon if it is a knife. You can try, but you will already have lost the fight.

2) It is true, a baton wielder who knows what he is doing can inflict more damage than one who doesn't, but it is all relative, same goes for a guy with a blade.

3) If I get whapped with one of those, it best be getting me in the temple, or my adrenaline will, no doubt, take over. I think someone who is pretty tough (I can take a shot like few I know) can sacrifice one or two shots in order to get in close. Maybe more, don't forget the adrenaline. But one slice across the throat, or against the wrist of the baton hand (another point), or a stab in the middle of the chest, and it is over pretty quickly.

4) I have seen countless, gruesome photos in forensic books of stab/cut victims. There are very few stick victims. This doesn't mean the knife will win the show down against a stick, but it does mean more die from knife wounds than baton wounds. Again, psychological advantage: knife man.
 
Originally posted by Razoredj
Confidence is good, but making the universal statement that "I'll take down a guy with a wimpy stick anytime I want" sounds like over-confidence.
Click to expand...

It is definitely over-confidence. I am very over confident in a situation like that. I would not be nearly that confident if the assailant has a knife. That is just a matter of opinion to me.
But in the stick situation, I KNOW I will come out on top. If it just so happens that I don't, then that is that; but I go into knowing I can't lose.
 
Hmmm fair points, I was often told my a MA friend of mine that one of the main lessons learnt at class was that a knife requires 'very little skill to kill' and at close range is a very deadly weapon even in the hands of an amature.

Hold the baton and have a Ka Bar in the other hand;) He will get the message.:D
 
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