Intended Use of a Tactical Folding Knife!

Originally posted by Ken Cook
Komondor,
I hope you never have reason to be disabused of your misconceptions.
You appear to be incapable of learning the easy way, and the hard way is expensive indeed.
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Oh please. I can take care of myself. Great confidence is frequently unsettling to others.
Not only that, my logic is indisputable in this thread.
 
Originally posted by komondor


Oh please. I can take care of myself. Great confidence is frequently unsettling to others.
Not only that, my logic is indisputable in this thread.
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Oops, my wrong. I meant undisputable.
 
Rusty,

I suggest you try to debate me rather than using cryptic allegory.


Steve,

Same old story. Someone less than a veteran posts an opinion not entirely popular among the usual suspects here, and that non-veteran is lambasted for his opinions, from all angles, even though those opinions make considerable sense. And in the process, the original essence of the post is hopelessly lost.
Sorry.
 
Why, why, why, you little thread hijackin' bastids! Get a grip, and not one on yourselves!

What are "Tactical Folders for?" Whay, for impressing the guy with the stick of course....no, wait, that didn't work...hmmm...

I know, impressing the guy with the gun? Nooo, that won't work either...hmmm...

Ok, ok, I know....impressing the co-workers, wife, kids, dog, goldfish, etc....No? Hmmm...

Onening boxes, the mail, cleaning fingernails, etc.? Yeah, that's better...and more likely, but is that all? No? No! ya wnna know what else? Do ya? Do ya really? Ok, here goes....

It's a minimal use self defense tool on par with OC, a kubaton, a snubby .38, and whateverelse you can see around you that can be used as a weapon, (Condition Yellow), ONLY to be used after all other methods of self defense, (attitude, awareness, physical presence, feet, voice, etc.) have been exhausted!

And if you do carry a "tactical folder", ya'd better damn well make sure that it's up to the task.....which may very well mean that you're gonna have to get your pretty little "tactical" knife dirty!

Whip it, beat it, slash with it, stab it, brutalize the little f*cker like your life may depend on it, because if and when the sh*t hits the fan, your life may very well depend on it!

Anyhoo, that's what I think...but what do I know right? Hell, I've only used a knife to defend myself once, and I was bleeding so much I couldn't really see anyway...I'm just thankful mine was a fixed blade...otherwise I might not be here to type this, and I sure wouldn't want to deny you fellas the pleasure...lol
 
A few points, Komondor.

1. Confidence and arrogance are two different things, though it may indeed be difficult at times to differentiate between the two.

2. It's possible to make some good points while making some poor ones.

3. One's "logic" is only "indisputable" when one's conclusions are properly structured and based on premises that are correct. In this case it is some of your premises that are questionable.

4. If bravado gets you through life, that's fine with me. Don't confuse obstinance with indisputable, iron-clad logic, however.

You seem to think this is a case of BF old-timers bashing a relative newbie, but I wish you didn't. Rather, I think those with perhaps slightly more experience are attempting to impart to you the benefit of that experience. Ken, in particular, seems pretty earnest to me. I think he'd rather not see you learn the hard way that going into a physical altercation feeling cocky is a good way to get your head handed to you.

As for thread-hijacking, well... Sorry about that, Steve, but threads always seem to drift to some degree. This one has just drifted more than average. ;)

Meant respectfully,
 
Originally posted by Razoredj
3. One's "logic" is only "indisputable" when one's conclusions are properly structured and based on premises that are correct. In this case it is some of your premises that are questionable.

4. If bravado gets you through life, that's fine with me. Don't confuse obstinance with indisputable, iron-clad logic, however.

You seem to think this is a case of BF old-timers bashing a relative newbie, but I wish you didn't. Rather, I think those with perhaps slightly more experience are attempting to impart to you the benefit of that experience. Ken, in particular, seems pretty earnest to me. I think he'd rather not see you learn the hard way that going into a physical altercation feeling cocky is a good way to get your head handed to you.
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I don't believe any of my premises are questionable.

As far as confusing obstinance with logic, I haven't for a second.

I'm puzzled as to how you assume the level of experience I have. I hope it has nothing to do with you merely disagreeing with my points and thinking I must be a novice because of them. If that is the case, trust me, whatever I am and whatever I do has worked beautifully for me in the past.

I just find it amusing that every opinion or statement I have made (outside of general knife topics)has been challenged by the same 3 or 4 individuals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy these challenges and look forward to them in the future. And I like everyone on these boards.
I just want you to know where I am coming from: if I appear to be arrogant, part of the reason is because I always find myself defending my views against several at once. But I mean everything I say, and I will support my views vehemently.
 
I don't believe any of my premises are questionable.
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Of course not, or you wouldn't have stated them. Nevertheless, the following are questionable premises:

"Unless your opponent has a really heavy club and he is swinging with murderous intent, a stick is no match for a blade." This is generalization is, flatly, false. It completely disregards the advantage in reach offered by a stick, unless it's your assertion that the stick in question is a kubotan (which we know it isn't). Even if it's possible to argue convincingly that I'm wrong in thinking this generalization is false, it's certainly questionable.

"That situation [the original stick/knife encounter] totally favors the knife man, but only if he soesn't do anything stupid." Actually, if skill levels are equal, and neither party is stupid, the man with the longer weapon has the advantage -- an advantage that the man with the shorter weapon must work to overcome (by finding some way to close the distance).

"If some robber comes in with one of those whippy sticks and asks for money, I am going to laugh at him, then approach him. I WILL then subdue him, no question about it. If I have to take one or two strikes against my weak arm, so be it. That dude is toast when I get on top of him though. " This, too, displays a basic underestimation of the danger afforded by such a weapon (or by a solid stick). It certainly is a questionable premise, stated as it is. For one, it assumes that your enemy has no skill or tactics apart from his desire to strike you with said "whippy stick." These are assumptions you cannot afford to make.

"And to be over-confident perhaps means when after you got your a** kicked, you think in retrospect, I was too careless." Finally, I question your premise that to be over-confident by default has no greater consequence than to sit back and say, "Gosh, I was too careless." To be able to say that one must first be alive; over-confidence will get you maimed or killed, sooner or later. To be confident is a good thing -- but to take it too far will harm you. If not now, then eventually.

As far as confusing obstinance with logic, I haven't for a second.
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I guess we'll disagree on that.

I'm puzzled as to how you assume the level of experience I have. I hope it has nothing to do with you merely disagreeing with my points and thinking I must be a novice because of them.
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I would never judge someone poorly only because they disagreed with me. Rather, some of the positions you've taken in this thread (over which I've already outlined my disagreement, so I won't rehash them) indicate, at the very least, ignorance of the weapons and tactics discussed -- an ignorance that I chalk up to lack of experience. Anyone so quick to dismiss the danger presented by the stick, for instance, can't know a great deal about Filipino stick fighting or modern Arnis.

You also seem to forget that you yourself admitted to a certain lack of experience in this regard: "In all honesty, I am not a self defense expert. Not even close."

If that is the case, trust me, whatever I am and whatever I do has worked beautifully for me in the past.
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And I certainly am not arguing that. I only seek to point out that certain ideas you've expressed might not always work, and the longer a man labors under false assumptions, the greater the chance that these will catch up with him.

I just find it amusing that every opinion or statement I have made (outside of general knife topics)has been challenged by the same 3 or 4 individuals.
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If it's your assertion that this constitutes some "get Komondor" conspiracy, I think that's fairly unlikely. Perhaps you should instead consider the fact that these "3 or 4 individuals" have similar backgrounds and similar experience -- and a similar tendency to challenge ideas they believe to be incorrect. What I see are individuals attempting to give you the benefit of greater experience. This need not always be viewed as a challenge.

I just want you to know where I am coming from: if I appear to be arrogant, part of the reason is because I always find myself defending my views against several at once. But I mean everything I say, and I will support my views vehemently.
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Now why does that sound so familiar?
 
Originally posted by Razoredj
It completely disregards the advantage in reach offered by a stick, unless it's your assertion that the stick in question is a kubotan (which we know it isn't). Even if it's possible to argue convincingly that I'm wrong in thinking this generalization is false, it's certainly questionable.
"That situation [the original stick/knife encounter] totally favors the knife man, but only if he soesn't do anything stupid." Actually, if skill levels are equal, and neither party is stupid, the man with the longer weapon has the advantage -- an advantage that the man with the shorter weapon must work to overcome (by finding some way to close the distance).
I still maintain my view that a knife is a more deadly weapon at close range. And I also think it has been forgotten that I stated a knife is not always going to triumph over a stick. I am merely contending that the knife (vs. most sticks) is by far more deadlier strike per strike. Who can argue with this?

This, too, displays a basic underestimation of the danger afforded by such a weapon (or by a solid stick). It certainly is a questionable premise, stated as it is. For one, it assumes that your enemy has no skill or tactics apart from his desire to strike you with said "whippy stick." These are assumptions you cannot afford to make.
I too am maintaining my argument that the typical attacker is not trained in escrima, Philipino jujitsu, or any other form of martial arts. The likelihood is really low that this will happen, at least where I live. People pick up sticks or bats because they are the most convenient weapon at hand. And this is another point I have been making, and very important: if you are going to feel confident with a big stick and a martial arts degree going against a pissant with a knife, how do you know that pissant doesn't have a freakin snub nose in his pocket? Surely a handgun is a greater weapon than any stick under most conditions. It's all the same logic. My views are just more practical and realistic, while the other views tend to sway towards an idealized opponent, a worst case scenario, a Bruce Lee with a stick, etc.

Anyone so quick to dismiss the danger presented by the stick, for instance, can't know a great deal about Filipino stick fighting or modern Arnis. [QUOTE}

I know nothing about modern Arnis or Filipino stick fighting and I assume my next assailant will not either. If by some slight chance he does, I would imagine there would be an even greater likelihood I will have a gun. See what I am saying?

""If it's your assertion that this constitutes some "get Komondor" conspiracy, I think that's fairly unlikely. Perhaps you should instead consider the fact that these "3 or 4 individuals" have similar backgrounds and similar experience -- and a similar tendency to challenge ideas they believe to be incorrect. What I see are individuals attempting to give you the benefit of greater experience. This need not always be viewed as a challenge.""

I have neither imagined a "get komondor" conspiracy nor do I worry about one. I am merely telling it like it is. And I agree with you completely about the shared experience of 3 or 4 individuals...plus a clique thing.

I was shocked to see the link you provided. Does it feel to you like you are looking at a mirror, at least in tone, not in anything else?
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Originally posted by komondor
I still maintain my view that a knife is a more deadly weapon at close range.
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Of course. But my point was that the knife wielder must first get in close range. Perhaps we're arguing different ends of the same problem.

And I also think it has been forgotten that I stated a knife is not always going to triumph over a stick.
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You also stated, ""That situation totally favors the knife man, but only if he soesn't do anything stupid." I took that to mean that the knife would always triumph over the stick.

I am merely contending that the knife (vs. most sticks) is by far more deadlier strike per strike. Who can argue with this?
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Not me.

I too am maintaining my argument that the typical attacker is not trained in escrima, Philipino jujitsu, or any other form of martial arts.
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I don't think you can afford to assume that, though -- anymore than you can afford to assume your attacker is trained.

My views are just more practical and realistic, while the other views tend to sway towards an idealized opponent, a worst case scenario, a Bruce Lee with a stick, etc.
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I don't agree, but there you have it. :)

I know nothing about modern Arnis or Filipino stick fighting and I assume my next assailant will not either. If by some slight chance he does, I would imagine there would be an even greater likelihood I will have a gun. See what I am saying?
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Of course. I just don't agree with the assumptions you're comfortable making.

I have neither imagined a "get komondor" conspiracy nor do I worry about one. I am merely telling it like it is. And I agree with you completely about the shared experience of 3 or 4 individuals...plus a clique thing.
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I don't believe it's a clique. I never post in opposition to someone simply because someone else has done so, nor do I hesitate to disagree with someone even if I often find myself in agreement with him or her.

I was shocked to see the link you provided. Does it feel to you like you are looking at a mirror, at least in tone, not in anything else?
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Not really. Maybe if we were arguing politics. ;)
 
quote:
I am merely contending that the knife (vs. most sticks) is by far more deadlier strike per strike. Who can argue with this?

Mmmmmm, it is a fine point, but the superiority of the knife over the stick as a personal combat weapon is hardly clear cut in favor of the knife. A good solid stick in the hands of some one who knows how to swing it will break bones in whatever it hits, and the range is usually longer. A skilled stick fighter with a good stick should be able to stay nearly out of range of a knifer, and break anything that the knifer lets stick out. In extremely tight quarters or where the knifer has the element of surprise the reach advantage of the stick is negated, but we are supposed to be assumeing the situation where the bad guy attacks with a stick, and the good guy is defending with a folding knife. But in a duel, my choice would be a longer stick against a knife. You have to be able to hit hard, but your chances of keeping the knife away from you are better.
 
Here is a question:

Is it easier to back away from someone, or move in on someone?
Obviously there is no concrete answer, as anything can happen in an altercation. But if you are to assume that it is easier to get close to someone, at least most of the time, and that your opponent will be easier to move in on, than for you to back away from him, than the choice of knife is only logical.
 
It is easier to move in, but there are solutions to this that amount essentially to moving laterally and deflecting the attacker's rush, or busting him down on the way in. This requires some skill and some room, but when you know how to do it, the result is almost always a pic your target shot on the way in, and if you can deflect the rush, another shot at the back of the head on the way by. And without a longer weapon of his own to block with, if he doesn't stick the knife arm behind his back, there is almost no way for him to stop you from hitting it.

It is hardly a cut and dry scenario. It depends largely on the skills of the two combatants, and also on a hundred other random variables, but that was my point, that a knife is not clearly superior to a stick in any and all circumstances. In fact, if the skills of the combatants are roughly equal, the one with the longer weapon should have the advantage. Which again is why you want a knife that an attacker can't break with a well placed hit.
 
Steve,

Those are effective statements. I am ok with those.

Razor,

A fair assessment.

Until next time.
Keep your tongue sharp and your head clear. And I will hope for the same.

jeff
 
Just in case anybody is still reading this thread other than for amusement, I'd like to point out there have been incidents when the spine of a knife was struck by a stick and it folded on the wielder's hand causing severe injury. Unfortunately none of those incidents were captured on video ... Harv just posted the closest video clip he could find.
 
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