Interesting new pack for traditional guys.

[hollowdweller]

I know I keep pimping it but this pack is a simlar size, large amount of pockets and way cheaper.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...Approach-3.0-Pack---Recycled&ad_id=GoogleBase

 

[kgd]

Again, I hate to dwell on it, but people make it sound like $400 is outrageous for a piece of kit that, should you decide to buy that item, is for all intensive purposes unique, rugged, fully capable and will last essentially forever.

Not everybody is flush with cash on these forums, I realize, but it is also primarily North America centric and just consider our typical buying habits:

a) Two years ago I bought my daughter an Ipod for as reward for doing awesome in an academic pursuit that she really put her nose to the grind to achieve. She didn't ask for it, but we knew she wanted it. Cost $500. Is it working today? No. Sales Clerk - oh those Ipods - if you get two years out of them, I'd be surprised.

b) my two kids both have their own cell phones. They pay for them and the service. Cost to each of them ~$400/year in service fees. We have a land line phone that we pay for. Why do they do it? Convenience.

c) My uncle bought a 60,000 Volvo. He could have bought a $18,000 vehicle that would be just a big and comfy, probably get better gas mileage. He bought it because he's crazy, or he just likes volvo. Which ever, my point is, over the next 5 years he's forking out $42k more then he needs to just for status or whatever.

d) Computers - as we mentioned. How many have we bought over the past 10 years? Personally, I've bought at least 5.

e) TV sets - Talfuchre - amazing you got rid of yours and some have also. I know a lot of people who don't have just one gigantic flat screen monstrosity, but have them in multiple rooms. When I moved into my home, it was (illegally) wired for cable hook ups in every room except the washrooms (I don't know why they didn't put a TV in the washroom - could be the best place to have one). People with 3 or 4 TV sets in their house isn't uncommon. All my American in-laws have at least 3.

f) Cookware. Well, I admit to being a spendfree person here. I think it is worth it, plus we have a huge gas range that can pump out the kind of heat that destroys lesser cookware. We spend about $1500 on pots, pans and cast. They will last the rest of our lives.

g) Stupid nick knacks. Those of you who are married - you know your wife a has few of them. These are things like those Dalton figurines that cost $300 and are good for two things - 1) collecting dust and 2) breaking and catching you hell for doing it.

h) knives.....how many do you need??? Have you spent more than $400 on knives? (okay that was a cheap shot)

So - all told $400 for a great pack, made in the U.S. will last a lifetime? Peanuts guys. Sure there are other cheaper packs out there, but that doesn't make buying this one insane. The price isn't insane by any standards. Buying a $400 chainsaw when you have 1 tree in your yard might be insane. Buying a pack that you are going to use, that you gain pride in supporting a legendary company, buying something that gives you a sense of nostalgia - $400 that is cheap for all those things.

 

[charadeur]

I don't think it is the cost alone so much as the cost when compared to other packs. When I can get a pack that probably holds more and is lighter for a third that. I am also not sure I believe that pack will last any longer than any well made pack. I did find it interesting that one thing they fail to mention in the specification is the weight.

It seems to me that using a pack like this would be more because I want to portray an image. The image other people have of me is never important outside of business.

 

[charadeur]

double post

 

[hollowdweller]

I love the look of that pack but I bet it's heavier.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I did find it interesting that one thing they fail to mention in the specification is the weight.

I don't.

Again, they cater to canoe campers. Weight doesn't matter. Like I posted in a canoe camping thread in the RAT subforum: "Ultralight canoe camping means your boat didn't sink." I mean, if you don't know canoe campers, you don't know what I mean, but these guys bring hibachis and chairs camping. The weight of it doesn't matter because it rides in the canoe, or gets portaged to the next bit of water a few hundred yards to maybe a mile away. Frames and supportive waist belts get in the way in the canoe and don't matter for a few hundred yard's walk.

I know most people here seem to be hikers and backpackers, but there are other wilderness sports out there, some of which work perfectly well with 90 pound rucksacks.

I know, people think I'm nuts for paying for that stuff, for paying the money for Kifaru stuff, or Busse knives. But then, I have a 19 inch TV that I picked up at a scratch and dent place for $125. I wear cheap BDUs and drive a Chevy.

You pay for what you like and what is important to you.

 

[Snow]

I like the pack and understand the price, but I personally wouldn't pay that much for it. It looks nice and rugged, but the shoulder straps don't look very supportive or comfortable to me. I agree that quality costs, and I would happily shell out $400 for a quality pack, made in the USA, that will last a lifetime. I just don't think THAT pack looks like the one for me.

 

[Bushman5]

I don't think it is the cost alone so much as the cost when compared to other packs. When I can get a pack that probably holds more and is lighter for a third that. I am also not sure I believe that pack will last any longer than any well made pack. I did find it interesting that one thing they fail to mention in the specification is the weight.

It seems to me that using a pack like this would be more because I want to portray an image. The image other people have of me is never important outside of business.

what image might that be?

and KGD summed it up very well, Duluth caters to the canoe crowd. weights of 1500 - 2000lbs are the norm. I have been on canoe trips where the canoe owner had a Mcleary woodstove, wooden tables and chairs, chuck boxes full of cast iron cookware and 500lbs of food as part fo the cargo. A well made waterproof pack made of natural materials and weighing a ounce or two more than a "modern" pack is not even an issue. BTW, i inherited an old duluth pack that had seen years of use in the woods. It was still in great shape, still repelled water, and had acquired a nice patina from sun fading. By contrast my "modern" MEC pack was faded ugly and the UV rays had caused the nylon to tear.

 

[Macclint]

I'm glad it's peanuts to the fellow above, but I'm on a budget. My canvas NATO pack works just fine for the 10 or so 2-night trips a year I make. I can buy three for under $20 and have just about the same functionality as this new pack.

It may be the greatest pack in the world, but, like some of the expensive knives here, it's a status symbol.

 

[C_Kyle]

$400 for a bomb-proof pack that will last even 5 years of regular use is not that bad. Would I buy it? No.

Now, I haven't looked around, so this might be in existence. A traditional-looking, waxed canvas/leather pack that doesn't look like an ALICE pack, hiding an awesome suspension system, 4500ci, and under 5lbs for $400? I'd be all over it...or at least I would dream about it.

In reality, I'm a $75-$200 daypack/$200-$300 mainpack person. It's funny, I love daypacks, and right now, I'm using the heck out of my favorite so far...it's a Deuter Futura, and cost like $50. I love this little pack more than a few others I've used that were more expensive and "better".

 

[Dabling]

I agree - 350 is SO very expensive given the fact that I just bought a hell of a day pack that retails at well under half that.

I don't think the weight is worth it either.

Which is too bad - I wonder why it is so expensive. It certainly looks cool.

TF

Hmm, what pack might that be.

I agree, there is no way I am spending that much money on a pack, and I use one almost everyday.

 

[Bushman5]

I'm glad it's peanuts to the fellow above, but I'm on a budget. My canvas NATO pack works just fine for the 10 or so 2-night trips a year I make. I can buy three for under $20 and have just about the same functionality as this new pack.

It may be the greatest pack in the world, but, like some of the expensive knives here, it's a status symbol.

I'm living on a $1 a day right now, with a grand total of $23 left in my pocket (no savings, no pension, nothing.)

you get what you pay for when you buy a well made item. It lasts. nuff said. Sure you can buy 3 or 4 packs for $100 each and get good service out of them, but why not buy ONE pack that does the same job and that you can pass down to your children and grandchildren?

reading these posts I realize we truly live in a throwaway society. :foot:

 

[Macclint]

It lasts. nuff said. Sure you can buy 3 or 4 packs for $100 each and get good service out of them, but why not buy ONE pack that does the same job and that you can pass down to your children and grandchildren?

1. Actually, those very sturdy NATO packs are around $17 from Sportsmans's Guide. The one I have has lasted about 11 years since I got it used surplus.

2. No kids to pass down to.

 

[charadeur]

Well it is a back pack so I would say it is intended to carry on ones back correct? For me that makes weight important. If I am canoe camping why would I even need a backpack? When ever I have been canoe camping I always use those duffel style dry bags in case of a tip over.

I think the image is of being more primitive than your fellow hiker/campers. If that is your thing I understand doing the primitive thing for the fun of it. However I really don't understand it if you are mixing modern equipment with primitive. If you are going primitive buy this pack and grab a lean-to and bed roll. Make a bow and drill to create your fire. Immerse yourself in the primitive experience. I could get into that and would buy one for that reason.

I still would like to here why everyone thinks this will last longer. I have been though several backpacks but I must be honest it is not because they were wore out. Truth is I bought into some latest and greatest new sales pitch from a magazine or web site and felt I could not live without a new backpack. I would like to see the backpack that is wore out and the story behind it.

 

[Ramm9]

If I am canoe camping why would I even need a backpack?

Portage. Day hike hunting or exploring.

I think the image is of being more primitive than your fellow hiker/campers. If that is your thing I understand doing the primitive thing for the fun of it.

I think you're on target. Maybe not "primitive" but more retro classic Nessmuk. Lots of wool, canvas Baker tent, open fires. It's certainly not going to compete with lightweight "backpacking" gear.

I still would like to here why everyone thinks this will last longer.

The canvas and cotton packs are dense material, fittings are stitched and riveted and buckles don't give.

I've "worn out" packs by tearing off shoulder straps, ripped the material on thorns and rocks, over packed them and split seams, melted holes in them, and had early nylon packs just about disintegrate (probably UV).

It's too bad this pack for all it's retro look has what looks like a nylon belt with plastic snaps and nylon compression straps. Cotton web straps and belt would be more fitting.

Did anyone check out the "Paul Bunyon Canoe Pack"? Now thats a serious canoe pack.
http://duluthpack.com/outdoor-gear/canoe/canoe-packs/paul-bunyan-canoe-pack.html

The price compares to other good quality canvas, waxed/oiled cotton bags cost so that shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[bwcaq]

Again, they cater to canoe campers. Weight doesn't matter. Like I posted in a canoe camping thread in the RAT subforum: "Ultralight canoe camping means your boat didn't sink." I mean, if you don't know canoe campers, you don't know what I mean, but these guys bring hibachis and chairs camping. The weight of it doesn't matter because it rides in the canoe, or gets portaged to the next bit of water a few hundred yards to maybe a mile away. Frames and supportive waist belts get in the way in the canoe and don't matter for a few hundred yard's walk.

I think that this describes primarily the base-camp canoe campers. The folks that really cover water and do multiple portages daily tend to travel light however. Most of them would give the ultralight backpacking crowd a run for their money on what can be properly called "Oz. OCD".

Personally, I take enough random/extra gear to be comfortable, but it's a real balancing act. I don't mind the occasional double portage because the portage itself can be a very special experience, but I'm not looking to overdo it, and risk a relatively minor...but trip ending injury. Hibachis and folding chairs? Only to be carried by a brother in law, new guy....well you get the picture. I swear I've actually seen people pack in water!!!!

As for the pack? I love it. Not my first choice, but if I was looking for a new canoe pack that one would at least be a contender. It would ride nicely, get passed on when I couldn't use it anymore, really that pack is a beauty.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Well it is a back pack so I would say it is intended to carry on ones back correct? For me that makes weight important. If I am canoe camping why would I even need a backpack? When ever I have been canoe camping I always use those duffel style dry bags in case of a tip over.

Because in certain places, particularly the Boundary Waters near DULUTH, are a series of lakes and rivers, and you often get out, portage to the next bit of water and put in. If you have a backpack, you can put the pack on, and portage the canoe and gear in one shot. The Duluth pack I've had (the canoe packs anyway) came with a heavy 6 mil dry bag for the inside. When packed right, they float and actually help act as a flotation device if you dump the canoe. If your pack sinks, you did it wrong.

I think the image is of being more primitive than your fellow hiker/campers. If that is your thing I understand doing the primitive thing for the fun of it. However I really don't understand it if you are mixing modern equipment with primitive. If you are going primitive buy this pack and grab a lean-to and bed roll. Make a bow and drill to create your fire. Immerse yourself in the primitive experience. I could get into that and would buy one for that reason.

A lot of guys do just that. However there are practical reasons. One is that when you canoe, the bottom of the boat gets water in it, the pack gets wet. Cotton dries faster than nylon. The outside of nylon dries quickly, but the inside stays wet a long time unless it's turned inside out to dry the inside. Water migrates in cotton from the wet to dry, so it draws the water out as it dries on the outside. So long as you don't leave it wet, it won't rot. Canvas handles long term UV better than untreated nylon. The leather becomes increasingly fitted to the wearer as the packs get worn, and if kept oiled, will not rot, either.

I still would like to here why everyone thinks this will last longer. I have been though several backpacks but I must be honest it is not because they were wore out. Truth is I bought into some latest and greatest new sales pitch from a magazine or web site and felt I could not live without a new backpack. I would like to see the backpack that is wore out and the story behind it.

Because they do last longer. We've already mentioned actual Duluth Packs that have lasted over 50 years. They used to have pics and a story ln their site about a canoe pack that was strung up between two trees to keep it from bears. The pack and/or trees got struck by lighting. The pack was badly burnt and torn, but kept intact enough to hold up the weight of one of the trees that fell and was on the way down to land on the campers.

I'm not the only one who has seen the thing nylon packs have a blowout and take a dump all over the place. Usually the culprit is abrasion or cutting on such things as sharp rocks and thorns. Canvas shrugs these off extremely well. I've walked through briars and come out bleeding, my shirt shredded, and my pack unscathed.

1000D Cordura is probably about the only material that may hold up as well. We'll know once those packs have been around 50 or 60 years.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

It's too bad this pack for all it's retro look has what looks like a nylon belt with plastic snaps and nylon compression straps. Cotton web straps and belt would be more fitting.

Yeah that does blow. IMO for a low-rider rucksack, any belt at all never worked for me. If I load them opposite a hip-rider pack, I.e. heavy on the bottom, it's very stable and rides right in the small of the back, kind of self-supporting, as much as one that rides on the shoulders can be.

Did anyone check out the "Paul Bunyon Canoe Pack"? Now thats a serious canoe pack.
http://duluthpack.com/outdoor-gear/canoe/canoe-packs/paul-bunyan-canoe-pack.html

Yeah, that's a big f-er.

My favorite canoe pack is the Hudson Bay

I ran the Wanderer as a daypack for quite a few years.

 

[Rotte]

I ran the Wanderer

That's the Duluth pack I have. Great rucksack.

Come to think of it, I also have their little "Sparky" daypack. Overbuilt and indestructible. Makes a handy day pack for general use.

 

[kahuana]

Great opinions guys. I have several packs for various pursuits. I am going on a 4 day canoe trip in Maine in 2 weeks. I was pondering which pack to bring and ran the gambit from traditional canoe packs to modern dry bags to backpacking packs. I decided on a Duluth #4 Timber Cruiser.

The day it arrived, I was turned onto the Duluth Bushcrafter Pack. Damn!! I opted to send for one for several reasons.
I like traditional gear , but the Timber Cruiser like most canoe packs is "mission specific." They are very useful for their intended tasks, but you probably wouldn't hump one for extended trips on the AT.

Given its size and configuration, I think the Bushcrafter would suit my needs as a versatile pack. Most of my trips as of late are either overnighters or 2 night outings, ususlly 2-3 miles into the woods. The materials are bomb proof and the padded shoulder starps and hip belt, while not a hi-tech suspension system, should do well with the loads I carry. The compression straps allow for attachment of additional gear, and I like the outside, permanent pockets. Plus it has a cool name (ha ha).

I am presently running either a Becker Patrol Pack (too small for year round use) or a Kifaru Marauder (too busy and too small also) for most of my outings.
Lastly, I am retiring from my first career in January and I am assembling gear while still at full salary. If you think $370 is a lot of coin (actually $395 + shipping for the waxed canvas model), imagine if it was made by Filson!!
The pack's designer Mike Lummino is a great, cool guy. I've only spoken to him on the phone and through email, but he is friendly, knowledgeable and accomodating. His videos are on his site and Youtube. Also, the knife he designed (BCNW-01) is awesome and worth looking into if you're looking for a very functional, reasonably priced bushcraft blade.

I'll post my findings after running the Bushcrafter pack for a while hopefully my search will be over and I'll finally settle on a pack.

How can I be with the same woman for 23 years and be so indecisive about gear? Wish me luck.