Interesting reading at Benchmade's Forum that affects YOU :)

Go for it Mike. Great original post. Looks like Benchmade's sense of open discussion is as bad as their notoriously bad heat treating.

Here's another embellishment on their failed sales policy.

I have an acquaintence who owns a storefront with a large knife clientele and a great inventory of knives in all price ranges. He is not a BM dealer because he frankly just doesn't like the quality vs. price thing and being told what he can and can't do if he becomes a direct dealer. On occasion he needs to get a BM on special request from some of his better customers. Therefore, he buys a few BMs from a distributor. He had several comments on pricing of BMs compared to a guy across town who does buy from BM. He investigated BM's pricing and realized that the difference he was forced to pay from a distributor was significant compared to what his competitor was paying to BM. We had a discussion about it and I decided to try something. I went to the BM direct dealer and started a little price negotiating for five knives. Too make a long story short, I bought five BM knives from a direct dealer for 5% less than my dealer friend could buy them from a distributor. Something that, according to BM's dealer agreement, is not supposed to happen. So much for BM's pricing policies. They do not really protect their prices through their dealers--they just hurt non-direct BM dealers be they internet or otherwise.

Worst of all I suppose is the arrogance shown by BM in the face of their rapidly diminishing quality and stale product development. They have taken what once was a pretty good and successful product and through sales policy stuck themselves in the foot. They need to learn from the experience or just bleed to death.

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A Patriot's Work Is Never Done--greetings from The Occupied South
 
If you read between the lines on my original post you can see there is a little bit of emotion there. For that I am sorry and maybe I should explain why but for now lets just say a previous decision by Benchmade, made in December '97, cost me over $500,000 in business. My meeting with them a month later, face to face, was like talking to a wall. But now I am looking at this from a whole new perspective so things will be different.



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I can see Mike's point from a dealer's perspective. I don't see why individuals are talking about "drop BM", "screw 'em", blah, blah.
Who pays retail? Or even close? None of us, I'll bet. I don't. I've been happy with the price I paid on all my knives-or I wouldn't have bought them to begin with. I have no problem paying a fair price for a product, nor do I particularly care about a dealer's problems-since I'm not a dealer.
Sounds to me like a bunch of people here want something for nothing, and are just looking for stuff to bitch about.
Wah.
Today it's BM's MAAP policy, tomorrow it'll be something else.
 

Sure hope this gets worked out. I like 1stop's sevice & Benchmades products. Seems like some middle ground could be reached W/O the lawyers.
 
Looks like BM is cleaning shop over on their forum.
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How long has it been down?

-AR
 
Does this explain why the 690 was not shipped to "online outlets" ?

God I soooo wanted one of those. Mike, give em a slap from me B@stards!

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
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A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
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Not to condone what Benchmade is doing -- as I believe in a free market -- however, they are not the only company guilty of using "leader price" policies.

Discount Knives stopped carrying Microtech products as they were dictating the amount they should sell for. I'm sure a lot of other high-end knife companies are guilty too.

It just doesn't stop there. Clothing manufacturers -- especially high profile ones -- have been doing this for the longest time. If a retailer doesnt comply, they are no longer authorized to carry the products.

What manufacturers don't realize is that it often creates "grey market" products which are sold through unauthorized dealers. This is bound to hurt Benchmade's reputation more than their knives selling less than Gerber's.

 
Hey MikeT, good post, and I agree all you said (probably not the way you said it, but that's a small detail).
But eh .. while you're at it, can you do something for Europeans? I get the feeling prices of american knives are increased artificially by the companies....
Since it is close to the current "war" you are waging, maybe something can be done, and I certainly can't do anything like that.

Example:
A microtech old SOCOM small here is about 400 USD. You have 'm for a lot less.

Does the dealer-problems with microtech have anything to do that Brain of discountknives shut their line down? I just happen to surf on his site and noticed that his microtech page says excactly that.

greetz, Bart.

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Brian can put his prices on Microtech back up now if he wishes. Microtech now completely understands first hand what I told them 2 years ago. All you Microtech dealers can take the dealer/distributor agreement you signed and rip it up and throw it away. It is now no longer in use at Microtech and it was not legal. Just pat me on the back at the next show you see me at
smile.gif


Benchmade's problem is a bit different and involves different precedent. Not to mention that in some ways it only affects a few dealers and in my case, my history with Benchmade goes back 10 years and more. I don't think many if any Internet dealer has dealt with them that long.

See I can show where I was a dealer, passed off to another distributor and made a sub distributor (I will explain this later) and then get cut off.

Benchmade can refuse to do business with whom ever they like. They just can't say it is because of pricing, which they clearly have done and this is where it gets tricky.

Below are some excerpts from the FTC's web site. Just read and get out of it what you can. Enjoy.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Experience demonstrates that traditional retailers sometimes respond to market upheavals by trying to forestall new forms of competition. When such conduct steps over antitrust boundaries, enforcement action is needed to ensure that anticompetitive practices do not deter development of procompetitive innovations. In 1998, for example, the FTC charged 25 Chrysler dealers with an illegal boycott designed to limit sales by a car dealer that marketed on the Internet. These brick-and-mortar dealers allegedly had planned to boycott Chrysler if it did not change its distribution of vehicles in ways that would disadvantage Internet retailers. The competitive danger of such a tactic is obvious: a successful boycott could have limited the use of the Internet to promote price competition and reduced consumers' ability to shop from dealers serving a wider geographic area via the Internet. An FTC consent order prohibits the dealers from engaging in such boycotts in the future.</font>


I have been referring a lot to the FTC and in the Microtech case it may very well be the Department of Justice who takes over. Some anti competitive practices, such as hard-core price fixing, are prosecuted as criminal violations under the Sherman Act. That’s handled by the Justice Department because it is a function of the Executive Branch of the government.

Section 1 of the Sherman Act outlaws "every contract, combination . . . , or conspiracy, in restraint of trade," but long ago, the Supreme Court decided that the Sherman Act prohibits only those contracts or agreements that restrain trade unreasonably. What kinds of agreements are unreasonable is up to the courts. In the case of Benchmade it is becomming clear that a larger portion of it's sales are now coming through the Internet. By withholding new product and offering incentives to those who DO NOT sell on the Internet, Benchmade may be in violation of the Sherman act. In fact by not selling to Internet dealers at all, Benchmade, IMHO, has clearly violated the act.

That is the reason for the offer above for them to sell to dealers who have demonstrated their prowess and legitimacy in this arena and this would virtually wipe out any chance of them being sued over this issue, at least by me.


The Sherman act allows for some leeway in how a manufacturer can attempt to control the prices of it's products to a degree. I know how they can accomplish this and many attorney's think they do as well. The problem I am finding is that the attorney's tend to focus on the Colgate case and in the interest of their client they do not explore where the real problems lay. Well I know where those problems are and I have pointed them out to several manufacturers. Benchmade has yet to listen to me and that is fine. Again I just want a fair level playing field and I want it now.

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Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
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I see that Benchmade's site is down. Has anyone heard how long it will be down?

I'm curious if this MAAP deal has anything to do with it.

The more I read on this, the more pissed off I get.

Les is gonna drown............
 
No I do not think the MAAP has anything to do with it. I have back doored into their site and it looks like changes are being made.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
Sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
The site being down has nothing at all to do with MAAP. I talked to Travis last week, and found out they are doing a complete site overhaul and update. I imagine it will be down just like they said, for a day or two.
 
There's two separate issues being discussed here:

1. MAAP (Minimum Allowable Advertised Pricing). A lot of companies do this, including, I believe, Spyderco, CRKT, & Busse.

2. Benchmades dealer policy where they won't sell to certain (types of) businesses.

I believe that it is #2 that Mike Turber has a problem with. Those of you who don't like MAAP, look at the companies you are happy with, many of them have it too.

And the BM site & forum seem to be back up, but there's a certain thread about off-topic posts that I can't find. Funny how things get lost in software changes, huh?

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Paradise lies in the shadow of swords." - Nietzsche
 
Face it, Benchmade is is business to make money, not friends. Nothing wrong with making money but lok how many in their industry have been successful on both counts. Remember, they are held to a higher standard.
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[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 01-27-2001).]
 
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