Is a Griptilian a switchblade?

In NY, it is requires that the knife lock open to be a gravity knife, and butterfly knives have been found not to be gravity knives due to the fact they do not lock open automatically ( about 6 case law opinions on this). That cleared up, the courts have held that butterfly knives are designed as weapons and are therefore "dangerous knives" and the same charge then applies. A knife that can be flicked open that does not lock can still be classified as a dangerous knife. The sad thing is that once an officer has decided to charge you with a weapons charge for any knife, the ADA 99% of the time goes forword with the charge. The judge will not see the actual knife at any one of the first two or three hearings, so the judgement of the officer will take you this far into the system once that ADA allows the case to proceed. The safest knife to carry in NYC would be a non locking SAK or slip joint. A locking knife should have a very tight blade that can not be flicked open ( even holding the blade and flicking the handle), and not have a blade that is designed as a weapon ( tanto, spear, bayonet, kriss, dagger, double edged). Never ever say you are carrying any knife or other item as a weapon! A roll of quarters carried as a weapon to use in punching, can get you the same charge as a dangerous knife. If you state it is a weapon, you show intent under NYS law. Many officers will lead you down the path during questioning, asking why you are carrying the item. Your "rights" do not need to explained to you until the officer believes he is obtaining evidence leading towards a arrest or that a crime has been committed and the officer is investiagting a crime. If an officer ask you why you have a items under normal conversation, and you offer that it is a weapon for SD, then you have given him enough information to charge you that will ( and has ) held up in court.
 
here is the wording that allow a lot of judgenment by the officer:

4... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use
primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent
to use the same unlawfully against another.

As stated above by me, anything or knife that is carried as a weapon is illegal. What is a dangerous knife? Any knife that is carried as a weapon. designed to be used as a weapon by the maker or modified by the person carrying it, or once it has been used or presented as a weapon ( someone has been cut by it, or you have displayed it as a weapon by menacing someone with it)....
 
Arpaio said:
Not that I have anything anyone can do about it, but this is ludacris.
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No, this is Ludacris:

ludacris.jpg
 
J_Curd said:
I thought you were all about our rights?
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There's understanding the law, Joe, and there's speaking out against violations of our civil rights by lobbying for changes to that law. You're doing neither; you're simply telling him that he shouldn't find a legal alternative. That's foolish and misdirected.
 
Phil,

I refuse to get in another argument with you (it's get old, dontcha think?), but I was speaking about about not laying down and having his rights trampled. I said more than "keep an illegal knife".
 
It amounts to the same thing. People here offered constructive options for how the original poster could find a solution that complies with the law. You took them to task for offering these constructive solutions, essentially saying that by trying to comply with the law, he was allowing his rights to be trampled.

That's not how it does or should work, in a free society. In a free society, responsible citizens comply with the law while working through the political venues available to them to change laws they consider unjust. They speak out about these injustices, but they do not rail against those who are trying to conduct themselves legally.
 
The griptillian isn't a switchblade. Morale of the story, don't run red lights and don't start up a debate with a cop when you're already breaking the law.
 
tom19176 said:
In NY, it is requires that the knife lock open to be a gravity knife, and butterfly knives have been found not to be gravity knives due to the fact they do not lock open automatically ( about 6 case law opinions on this). That cleared up, the courts have held that butterfly knives are designed as weapons and are therefore "dangerous knives" and the same charge then applies. A knife that can be flicked open that does not lock can still be classified as a dangerous knife. The sad thing is that once an officer has decided to charge you with a weapons charge for any knife, the ADA 99% of the time goes forword with the charge. The judge will not see the actual knife at any one of the first two or three hearings, so the judgement of the officer will take you this far into the system once that ADA allows the case to proceed. The safest knife to carry in NYC would be a non locking SAK or slip joint. A locking knife should have a very tight blade that can not be flicked open ( even holding the blade and flicking the handle), and not have a blade that is designed as a weapon ( tanto, spear, bayonet, kriss, dagger, double edged). Never ever say you are carrying any knife or other item as a weapon! A roll of quarters carried as a weapon to use in punching, can get you the same charge as a dangerous knife. If you state it is a weapon, you show intent under NYS law. Many officers will lead you down the path during questioning, asking why you are carrying the item. Your "rights" do not need to explained to you until the officer believes he is obtaining evidence leading towards a arrest or that a crime has been committed and the officer is investiagting a crime. If an officer ask you why you have a items under normal conversation, and you offer that it is a weapon for SD, then you have given him enough information to charge you that will ( and has ) held up in court.
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Thanks as always for the advice. I'm going to see if I can find a non-locking blade that can be opened one handed (I'm getting elbow surgery soon, and two handed opening is going to be a drag for six weeks) but can't be flicked open.
 
davide said:
Thanks as always for the advice. I'm going to see if I can find a non-locking blade that can be opened one handed (I'm getting elbow surgery soon, and two handed opening is going to be a drag for six weeks) but can't be flicked open.
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The Spyderco urban or UKPK is a non locking one hand opening knife. A Slipit.
 
Looks like the officer let you know that your knife is illegal to carry in NYC, and didn't lay a charge. He has the right to be safe from a visible weapon during his stop, and this is likely why he took it from your pocket. Not being complacent is the first rule of officer safety.
I don't know that he had any cause to try and flick it open, since the knife had nothing to do with the offence. He should have just given it back when he was done. This is where he'd have lost his charge in Canada, if you had a half-capable lawyer.
Regardless, he sent you on your way, and gave you back your knife, which I'd say was pretty decent, since it is illegal under NYC laws.
Seems every time a cop does something that we don't like, somebody shouts, "He violated your rights!!" More often than not, the guys saying it don't have all the facts, and end up being wrong. That's why it's important to get your ducks in a row before you fly off the rails... (The OP was asking questions - I am not referring to him in the above comments)
 
marthinus said:
The Spyderco urban or UKPK is a non locking one hand opening knife. A Slipit.
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But those can be spyder dropped open right? Or can they be tightened to the point where that won't happen. I was thinking of getting the Bob T slipit or maybe one of these Mcusta's and tightening it down as much as possible.
 
Jim, in NY and the US in general, once a weapon has been discovered it can be examined to see if it is a legal item or not. Since this is a knife forum, and knives may be considered weapons, it is often a charge that will stick regardless of why the person was stopped. I posted the links about showing how people are stopped and checked in NYC and the main thing they are looking for are weapons. The officer must always be able to state the reason he stopped the person, and there is a standard that must be met, but an experinced officer can easliy offer a valid reason for the stop, and you will be seen as the suspect who had a weapon, saying that was not what happened to the judge. Jim, when drugs or other non weapon offenses are discovered during a search in which no suspected drug activity was first suspected, then there is a chance that type of charge will not stick. Weapons charges usally stay the course. I do wish the Second Amendment was actually enforced upon the states and cities the way the First Amenedment is. You can tell people how to make bombs on the internet since that is their First Amned right, but carry the wrong pocket knife in the wrong part of the US and your an instant criminal for life!
 
By the way... Good lubed Stanley knife is the terrible switchblade!
It can be opened by one hand, the opening can be assisted with the gravity and with the wrist motion.

:)
 
davide said:
But those can be spyder dropped open right? Or can they be tightened to the point where that won't happen.
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A non-locking knife doesn't count as a gravity knife even if it can be flicked, as far as I know.
And yes, the pivot can be tightened.
 
Tom, that makes sense, thanks for the clarification. In Canada, the officer would likely do the same. (I'd prolly just know because I'm a knife guy...)
If a cop did the flick-test and opened it, he'd be within his rights IF he could articulate why he thought it might be illegal. Just saying in court, "I wanted to see..." would likely lose it. We have to always have a reason for everything. On cross, the defence would grill me why I didn't get a warrant if I suspected it was prohibited. In many cases, the cop would be able to articulate his reasons, but not always.
One thing about court in Canada, you can never say with certainty how something will go in court. Everything depends on the cop's investigation & court brief, the Crown's ability vs. defence, and interpretation of statutes by all parties including the judge.
Glad to hear in the US the police can take reasonable steps as you mentioned. We can too, but it's always gray.
Funny how some people argue that the police shouldn't have done this or that to learn it was an illegal weapon, or that they carried an illegal weapon, when the WERE breaking the law, and it WAS an illegal item. Rights against unreasonable search and seizure are absolutely necessary, obviously, but what a paradox. Law in both our countries make it legal to break all sorts of laws as long as we take the necessary steps to properly conceal it. Not that I can suggest anyway around, if we are to remain relatively free, though.
 
You know, this thread is turning into an argument about the law. In NYC you would probably have to be prepared to go to the Supreme Court to change a knife or a gun law, so why bother? And to make things worse, there is nothing in the Constitution about the right to carry a knife.

My two cents is to carry something legal as long as you choose to live in NY. Since you are talking about getting a knife with a light, why not go with the multitool you suggested, or go with a Swiss Army Knife. While I believe the cop you referred to was definitely flexing his muscles, why push the envelope? In some places ANY knife is considered a concealed carry, and the cop who sees it is going to make the call.

I live in Colorado. I can legally carry a gun in my pocket but not a switchblade. Go figure.
 
tom19176 said:
In NY, it is requires that the knife lock open to be a gravity knife, and butterfly knives have been found not to be gravity knives due to the fact they do not lock open automatically ( about 6 case law opinions on this). That cleared up, the courts have held that butterfly knives are designed as weapons and are therefore "dangerous knives" and the same charge then applies. A knife that can be flicked open that does not lock can still be classified as a dangerous knife. The sad thing is that once an officer has decided to charge you with a weapons charge for any knife, the ADA 99% of the time goes forword with the charge. The judge will not see the actual knife at any one of the first two or three hearings, so the judgement of the officer will take you this far into the system once that ADA allows the case to proceed. The safest knife to carry in NYC would be a non locking SAK or slip joint. A locking knife should have a very tight blade that can not be flicked open ( even holding the blade and flicking the handle), and not have a blade that is designed as a weapon ( tanto, spear, bayonet, kriss, dagger, double edged). Never ever say you are carrying any knife or other item as a weapon! A roll of quarters carried as a weapon to use in punching, can get you the same charge as a dangerous knife. If you state it is a weapon, you show intent under NYS law. Many officers will lead you down the path during questioning, asking why you are carrying the item. Your "rights" do not need to explained to you until the officer believes he is obtaining evidence leading towards a arrest or that a crime has been committed and the officer is investiagting a crime. If an officer ask you why you have a items under normal conversation, and you offer that it is a weapon for SD, then you have given him enough information to charge you that will ( and has ) held up in court.
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Tom, are small fixed blades illegal for carry? If not, do you know where i can read up on the allowed specs? Thanks a lot. You're contribution is incredible.
 
small fixed baldes are not pe se illegal, so long as they are not carried as a weapon, or in NYC carried exposed. There were a few rare cases where a small fixed blade was considered a "dirk", but that was some time back. Most of today's officers would not know what a dirk is, and it is a non defined term under PL 265. There was a case of a transit worker who fended off a robbery and actually killed one of his attackers. He carried a small fixed blade in his pocket and was not charged at all in the incident. As always, have a non weapon reason for carrying the knife, and stay away from weapon designed blade shapes.
 
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