Is a Tanto Blade Worthless?

[nozh2002]

can you ID this one, I like the looks of it

I bought it in Kukihide in Yokohame - have no idea who produce it and where it cam from. May be someone can read Japanese - there is some writing on the blade.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[mdauben]

Tan - short
To - sword
TanTo - short sword

Pinning too much authority on common transliteration of such radically different langagues as Japanese and English is a bit tricky. The kanji used for the '-to' in tanto (短刀)is also used in the kanji for naginata (薙刀) which is certainly even more different from what would be called a "sword" in english than a "knife" is.

Hocho - knife

I believe there are also multiple different names for rice (gohan, meshi, genmai, etc.) in Japanese, too. Different names do not mean that they are not all rice, though.

There is a huge difference between sword and knife -

Perhaps, but there can be a lot of similarities, too, expecially when they come from the same technological and cultural source.

A katana and a tanto share a lot of structural similarities, but that is due as much to common technology and style issues as anything. The European Rapier and Main-Gauche are probably as similar in constriction and style to each other as the katana and tanto are, yet they were used in totally different ways. I don't think anyone would argue that the Main-Gauche was a sword simply based on its structural similarites to the Rapier.

I claim no scholarly expertice on the Japanese language (nihongo) or the history of Japanese weapons, but I have spent 20+ years studying the Japanese martial arts, including time with both tanto and katana techniques, and they are as radically different from each other as those of western techniques for a knife and a sword.

 

[nozh2002]

Pinning too much authority on common transliteration of such radically different langagues as Japanese and English is a bit tricky. The kanji used for the '-to' in tanto (短刀)is also used in the kanji for naginata (薙刀) which is certainly even more different from what would be called a "sword" in english than a "knife" is.


I believe there are also multiple different names for rice (gohan, meshi, genmai, etc.) in Japanese, too. Different names do not mean that they are not all rice, though.


Perhaps, but there can be a lot of similarities, too, expecially when they come from the same technological and cultural source.

A katana and a tanto share a lot of structural similarities, but that is due as much to common technology and style issues as anything. The European Rapier and Main-Gauche are probably as similar in constriction and style to each other as the katana and tanto are, yet they were used in totally different ways. I don't think anyone would argue that the Main-Gauche was a sword simply based on its structural similarites to the Rapier.

I claim no scholarly expertice on the Japanese language (nihongo) or the history of Japanese weapons, but I have spent 20+ years studying the Japanese martial arts, including time with both tanto and katana techniques, and they are as radically different from each other as those of western techniques for a knife and a sword.

Well, I just say one more time - sword is sword and knife is knife. If you think that sword is long knife or knife is short sword - you should do some research to know what are you talknig about. I am not saying that I have 20+ years studying whatever - it is just common sense to me.

Tank is not bigger car as well as car is not smaller tank (even there can be a lot of similarities).

I hope you understand my point.

Sword is not long knife, knife is not short sword.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[horseboy61]

"Tanto" is a word describing a type of knife(short sword) . The American bastardized term "Tanto" usually refers to the chisel grind tip , which was adapted to penetrate body armor , I have seen alot of different size japanese swords and knives with this tip it does not make the tantos.

 

[Kaizen1]

That was my point exactly. A dagger shape will out stab an american tanto easily. The point of a good stabber is to not have to use as much force as a different shape. I can simply push many of my other knives into a tree and have them stay there, my tantos I have to wind up and back-hand them into the tree.
The attributes and abilites of an american tanto have been over-hyped. I own two, because I like how they look when I hold them, but I would choose most other blade shapes to EDC.

I have to agree with WongKonPow, I rotate between a Hinderer XM-18 (Spanto tip- tanto/spearpoint) and a DDR Madd Maxx with a dagger type blade. The DDR can stab incredibly easier than the XM-18. The fact is, the XM-18 just has more material to stab with. The difference between slicing with an ax and with a kitchen knife is the same in principle. The positive side of having a thinker tip is that it is less vulnerable to damage.

 

[Lycosa]

Thanks Vass.
The Tanto blade is a Ginto, war, blade. It is not for utility use.

 

[stabman]

You can't really cut anything with it, it's all for stabbing. And looks.

Yes you can.
The flat edge near the tip is useful for many cutting tasks, and the "secondary point"(or whatever it's called) can be good for precision cuts on certain materials.
Don't unfairly bash a design just because YOU don't like it.

 

[nozh2002]

"Tanto" is a word describing a type of knife(short sword) . The American bastardized term "Tanto" usually refers to the chisel grind tip , which was adapted to penetrate body armor , I have seen alot of different size japanese swords and knives with this tip it does not make the tantos.

When I ask in Yokohama Hotel where I can buy tanto - they point me to antique shop with short and long swords starting from $5000. I had to explain them that I need just a knives - then they point me to closest shop where knives are sold. So tanto is specifically short sword, and not short sword by short nihhon-to - japanise sword.

No one allowed to produce tan-to in Japan but small number of licensed craftsmen - this is part of Japan heritage and well protected (as well as other nihhon to). It must be made from tamahogane - steel produced using tatara method when once a year they allowed to burn for three days 30 ton mix of charcoal and iron sand from Japan mountain rivers.

So tanto in Japan well defined term and not applied to knives at all.

I do see only Unagiba knife which has American Tanto tip, but no other knives. Here some shots I made in Kukikhide:

On the top there is Unagiba - eel penetrating knife, among other kitchen knives.

I just noticed on here with red handle,but this is rare and probably influenced by American Tanto - majority has nice belly straight tip..

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[bchan77]

I had an Emerson CQC7 for quite a while. That was a tanto blade, and I didn't find it underperforming in the cutting tasks it handled. I definitely would not consider it worthless.

 

[Flashpoint]

The only Tantos I have any experience with have been the ZT 0400 and the Kershaw Tanto Groove. They both veer for the typical Tanto style. Overall I liked the function of the shape in the 0400. It performed EDC task fine. The only problem I had with it was that it was a thick blade with an obtuse angle. It cut fine, but it wasn't a slicer, which was what I was wanting. I did find both the function of the blade shape and the razor like slicing ability in the Tanto Groove. It has a much thinner blade, with a crazy sharp double grind. Most of my cutting chores consist of stabbing, fine work at the tip, or heavy cutting done at the base of the blade. A belly is something I don't use much. I know I don't like chisel grind, and I may not like the more typical American style Tanto if I used one, but I do find the Tanto Groove to be useful.

 

[bchan77]

The Kershaw does look nice! Thanks for the link.

 

[Alberta Ed]

I guess it all depends. I used my CS tanto (one of original ones) to butcher big game (moose). It has a nice curve on the cutting edge and worked great; the angled tip cut through joints beautifully. I've read on this forum of people who used (abused) the Buck/Strider tanto to pry open paint cans, scrape gaskets, etc.

 

[Knivesandgear.com]

To answer the OP's question, American tantos work just fine if that's your preference. There are many members whose primary EDC is a tanto and it certainly hasn't stopped them from cutting anything. For common EDC cutting, I not only think tantos are underrated on these forums, but that the belly of a blade is overrated.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

But tanto's were made for tactacle usage, stabbing and fighting. Also they are very good for prying...since the blade is very thick at the tip.

I don't prefer them but that's just me. I have a friend that has bought several from me and loves them.

And as stated above, his tanto blade knives haven't slowed him down in everyday life.

 

[nozh2002]

But tanto's were made for tactacle usage, stabbing and fighting.

To my knowledge American Tanto was made to sell some unusual and exotic looking knives. Japanese short swords - which were used for fight by generations have quite different geometry.

It will be interesting to hear how really those tips get used by people who EDC this type ob blade for real for long time. I am not talking about repeating this marketing mantras about "specially designed for armor penetration" etc, but how that angel down the tip get used?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[GIRLYmann]

"Is a Tanto Blade Worthless?"
- IGotStabbed

yeah, gotta admit that i am smitten by it's looks.
and that i can't shake of the idea that i might actually require a certain "tanto" model to pierce through a car hood someday...
yup! i love the idea of a having around a tanto that sounds all too pretty handy in a tactical/defensive role, but i doubt if that would ever happen to me any day soon.
so, come to think of it; true worth probably lies within the relm and understanding of a said owner's intention and purpose for any particular said blade's use within the confines of it's pattern and specific design purpose.
to each his own, and usefulness of something can only be discovered when there is no other alternative to be had.

 

[Buffalohump]

No doubt a dagger is a more efficient penetrator, but the dagger is also inherently weak and a double edged blade has other 'issues'.

The tanto still allows excellent penetration but with a stronger tip design.

I don't think it was designed to be used on trees. Try a softer target!

That was my point exactly. A dagger shape will out stab an american tanto easily. The point of a good stabber is to not have to use as much force as a different shape. I can simply push many of my other knives into a tree and have them stay there, my tantos I have to wind up and back-hand them into the tree.
The attributes and abilites of an american tanto have been over-hyped. I own two, because I like how they look when I hold them, but I would choose most other blade shapes to EDC.

 

[razorsdescent]

NO!
RESEARCH this blade design!!

Thank you lycosa i think the thread should have ended here. i love the ocasional american tanto its got a great look and a beey tip. the traditional japanes tanto has been around forever so im gona ssume it works as well. LOrenzl that lum is gorgeous its a treasure imho worth more than its weight in gold. Noz i love the simple japanese folders ive seen them in magazines before and with the lockless mechanism ive wondered from what era the designorigionates

 

[Kaizen1]

I'm just going to keep repeating my post until someone from the "tantos-are-worthless" camp responds.

I don't see how people can say that an American tanto is "worthless." Does that mean that you would throw it away rather than keep it? Does that mean that you literally cannot cut what you normally cut? Or does it just mean that you are more comfortable using a different blade shape?

"Worthless" to me are the Frost knives sold on the shop at home programs. Those are literally worthless. I would throw those away. I couldn't use them for normal EDC and feel safe about it.

The question isn't "Are drop points more convenient to use than Americanized tantos?" Is anyone here actually saying that if they had the option to buy a $300 quality made custom tanto, that they wouldn't buy it for a dollar, assuming they couldn't resell it?

 

[LorenzoL]

I am going to e-mail True North Knives to tell them that they have some "worthless" Tanto Umnumzaans in stock but that I would be willing to pay the shipping to help them get rid of them...

 

[Lycosa]

Thanks RazorD. These Tanto threads get so nutty. I recommend the book, The Samurai Sword, by John Yumoto, for those interested in learning about Japanese blades.