Is all 1075 "created equal" when it comes to hamon.

Josh Rider

Josh Rider

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I know that's probably not an easy answer since a hamon will differ blade to blade. But as I was browsing between Jantz and NJSB, I was wondering if hamon activity would be different from two different melts. (Or maybe they're from the same).
It's only a small price difference so it's not the money I'm thinking about.
 
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Hamon activity is a factor of two things:
The most important is shallow hardening. This is dependant of the second thing - alloy content. The most important alloying is low Manganese. Any other alloy ingredients should be not there at all or very low.

The perfect hamn steel would be 1% carbon and 99% iron. That isn't going to happen, so the next best is things like Hitachi White Paper #1. This is hard to get, so the standard carbon steels are next - 1075, 1084, 1095, W2. If at all possible get an exact analysis of the batch you will be buying from ( not an average or standard specs sheet). Most suppliers can provide that info.

Many of the knife suppliers buy their steel from the same sources. They sell steel alloyed for good forging and ease of hardening. This usually means more alloying, not less. Some will carry a steel that is particularly good for a hamon. It is best to call and talk to the supplier for the specs.

I use Aldo's 1075 for some hamon items. It cones in a size suitable for forging large blades and swords.
 
If you find old stock 1075, it might have more manganese than the stuff Aldo sells. Lower manganese typically means a better hamon potential. Any alloy that increases hardenability, which commonly includes chromium or nickel, in addition to manganese, will they slow down the required quench speed. Manganese below 0.4% with minimal other alloys usually allows a good hamon. 1080+ looks like it could hamon based on manganese content, but it has too much chromium as well as a host of other small amounts of alloying.

The second way to get a hamon is to use lower carbon, and use a geometry that results in martensite in the wedge part of the geometry. Different way to get there, and typically lower performance than a higher carbon, low alloy steel. Might be ok for a chopper application.
 
Interesting to note that Aldo's 1075 technically is not 1075, because the manganese levels fall outside of the AISI spec.
 
I was surprised too that it only comes in 3/16 or thicker from both places.
I have to get some. Warren, I think it was one of your posts IIRC and I think one of forum member J. Doyle's post with the amazing hamon activity with 1075. I told myself to put hamon to the side for a while because I was spending so much time trying to develop one when I have other things I need to do, but I can't get them out of my head.
 
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Josh Rider said:
I was surprised too that it only comes in 3/16 or thicker from both places.
I have to get some. Warren, I think it was one of your posts IIRC and I think one of forum member J. Doyle's post with the amazing hamon activity with 1075. I told myself to put hamons to the side for a while because I was spending so much time trying to develop one when I have other things I need to do, but I can't get them out of my head.
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I'm in the same boat. I couldn't get them out of my head.
 
Hamon is always hamon.

Never pluralized.

One hamon, lots of hamon.

Also, it's pronounced HA-muhn, or even HA-moan. It's not HAY-muhn. Or HAY-moan. Or, for crying out loud, HAY-moans. NO ADDED 'S'.

Regarding 1075, I've used it once. Working on that knife right now. It has nice hamon. It's old stuff from Aldo. I determined what it wanted in order to get decent activity by shitloads of trial and error. As far as I can tell, this is the Law Of Hamon. A smart guy would figure out what works for a given steel, then buy an assload of it so he wouldn't have to go through the BS of figuring it out over and over again.

I only know a couple of those guys, btw. Can't say I'm one of them.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Hamon is always hamon.

Never pluralized.

One hamon, lots of hamon.

Also, it's pronounced HA-muhn, or even HA-moan. It's not HAY-muhn. Or HAY-moan. Or, for crying out loud, HAY-moans. NO ADDED 'S'.

Regarding 1075, I've used it once. Working on that knife right now. It has nice hamon. It's old stuff from Aldo. I determined what it wanted in order to get decent activity by shitloads of trial and error. As far as I can tell, this is the Law Of Hamon. A smart guy would figure out what works for a given steel, then buy an assload of it so he wouldn't have to go through the BS of figuring it out over and over again.

I only know a couple of those guys, btw. Can't say I'm one of them.
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How about HAM-ann? I'm from Wisconsin so it's the best I can do. :very_drunk:
 
I'll have to blame that on my upbringing and Kentucky's (not to be confused with forum member Kentucky) general disregard for correct pronunciation. After all we have a Loo-uh-vull (Louisville) and Ver-sales (Versailles).
Thanks for the correction Noo York :p
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Only if served with cheese. Or maybe egg.

HAM-ann egg.

Actually, that sounds pretty good right now....
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That must be some kind of joke.



Everything is served with cheese.


To the point of the thread, I have a piece of 1075 in the oven tempering right now that I just received from Aldo. From a quick etch and wipe prior to tempering I think it will have some pretty nice action.
 
Actually Mr. Brewster, you are correct. If you want to get technical it is, in fact, 1076. The Manganese in the new batch that came in about a month ago is .36 Manganese. As for sizes, we have 3/16, 1/4 and 3/8 IN STOCK!!!Below is a picture of a Matt Venier piece made with the 1075. Matt is a bit of a "Hamon Freak" as you can see.


BCham.jpg
 
I just ordered some received some 1075 from njsb, thought I would give hamon another try.

Is canola suitable for good hamon activity?
 
Aldo Bruno said:
Actually Mr. Brewster, you are correct. If you want to get technical it is, in fact, 1076. The Manganese in the new batch that came in about a month ago is .36 Manganese. As for sizes, we have 3/16, 1/4 and 3/8 IN STOCK!!!Below is a picture of a Matt Venier piece made with the 1075. Matt is a bit of a "Hamon Freak" as you can see.


http://www.venierforge.com/Venier_Design_Inc./Big_Chopper_files/BCham.jpg
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Oh I'm glad I bought a few bars if that's what it can do! I can't wait to get home from work and start sanding the blade I tempered last night.
 
PARKS 50 will give you the best results unless you want to try brine which is faster and more prone to cracking. As for veggie oils I believe peanut oil is faster then most, but investing in 5 gal of parks is well worth it in the long run.
 
I use Parks for everything anymore. Hasn't bit me yet. Trying to use slower oil because it's "right" has bit me way more often.
 
Aldo Bruno said:
PARKS 50 will give you the best results unless you want to try brine which is faster and more prone to cracking. As for veggie oils I believe peanut oil is faster then most, but investing in 5 gal of parks is well worth it in the long run.
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Gotcha!
 
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