Is anyone else not so fond of the trend towards bearings?

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Muaddib1116

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Dec 26, 2010
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I'm sure I'm going to get some flak for this, but it's late, I'm tired, and I'm feeling ornery. I'm not a fan of bearing pivot systems. I think that they aren't as robust as and don't have as much longevity as washers and that they are only necessary if the knifemaker doesn't want to put the effort into making a proper washer pivot. Kershaw's Skyline taught me that you don't need bearings to have a glassy smooth flipper that easily fires open with authority. In my eyes, bearing pivot systems are just feature marketing.
 
Is there anything this forum won't complain about? Geez, I've seen complaints about nearly every kind of knife feature known to man just this week. Yeesh.

As to your question, there is value in both systems. My smoothest folders are sealed (as opposed to caged) ceramic bearings, but I also have crazy smooth PB washer knives and crazy smooth Teflon washed knives. They're all good, but bearings tend to be just a little better in my most humble of opinions.
 
To me bearings make a knife better than an auto, or assisted opener. It's not illegal, no springs to break and it's smoother, you can open with whatever force you desire, compared to an auto, or assisted which always sends the blade flying out with the same hard force everytime.
 
This is like saying that Tanto's are for makers to lazy to try recurve, clip point etc... Or like saying aluminum is for makers too lazy to try titanium...the list goes on and on and on because it all boils down to preference and that makers style. You can have a knife with bearings anda knife with washers that both flip out smooth and lock up solid but feel completely different to different people. This is what creates a diverse market and encourages variety... Simply put..... Different strokes for different folks.
 
Bearings definitely make for nice smooth action, and I don't get this lazy thing. I'm no expert, but I would think its just as difficult to execute a well done bearing pivot as it is washers. Even if a maker uses bearings, they still have to assemble the knife with enough precision so there is no slop, and a good solid lockup.

I feel this is one of the advantage of bearings is. You can have a very nice, tight pivot with no slop at all, and still have very smooth action. So, I guess you would say I like bearings.
 
I think bearings can be nice, but I have had plenty knives w/o them that are still crazy smooth(paramilitary, benchmade). Still, the bearings do give it just a bit more smoothness and you don't have to adjust the pivots super accurately to achieve it. The biggest downside of bearings to me it taking the knife down, so as long as they're caged then I'm cool w it.
 
I don't really care about bearings. They're nifty, I suppose, but the whole craze about smooth action on a knife is all about how it feels and fidget factor, it adds no actual performance value to the knife. For me, that's just extra cost without any great benefit, which makes it very low on my list of priorities. A knife that opens butter smooth is certainly nice, but if we're honest about it that's pure aesthetics, not practicality.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I don't really care about bearings. They're nifty, I suppose, but the whole craze about smooth action on a knife is all about how it feels and fidget factor, it adds no actual performance value to the knife. For me, that's just extra cost without any great benefit, which makes it very low on my list of priorities. A knife that opens butter smooth is certainly nice, but if we're honest about it that's pure aesthetics, not practicality.
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I would tend to agree with you, my main priorities would be how well it cuts, reliability, and durability. Yes the fidget factor runs high with flippers and some may not have things to cut so,the flipping action becomes the goal. That said I do enjoy the sound of a flipper deploying with authority.
So whatever you're looking for, today's makers are delivering all kinds of choices, if you're not a fan of bearings move on to something else.
 
I've got a shirogorov on washers that is smoother and faster than any bearing knife I've played with, even the shiro on bearings I've had. I'm sure either one could be reliable and smooth. That doesn't mean washers are better, just means I've got a good one lol.
 
I personally including several customs have never had a bearing knife that was as smooth as my best washer knife. Faster yes but not as smooth by a long shot.
 
I prefer bearings but its not for the smoothness. And I disagree that they are easier to build and simply for the maker who wishes to not do a washer pivot properly. Washer pivots are much simpler to do. Bearings systems have a good few more steps to get done right and are bigger challenge. I would argue that many makers who havent or wont do them simply dont feel there is enough performance gains if any to justify the added expense and work. I however love them for reasons other than smoothness. But that is just me.
 
Variety is the spice of life. I appreciate anything that is sharp and shiny.
 
I have to agree with OP. A well executed washer pivot can be just as smooth as a bearing pivot and is structurally much more solid than a bearing pivot.

Bearings weaken the already weakest point of a knife in 2 ways when compared to a washer system:

- the contact area of a flat washer of the same inner and outer diameter is much larger than that of a bearing system as the lateral and twisting forces are distributed over the entire surface area of the washer vs just a few (5-8) infinitely small contact points with bearings. Bearings will not only wear faster (the blade and handles will wear down in the bearings tracks) but also put much more strain on the surface of the blade and handles that make contact.

- the necessary removal of material in the handles and blade tang to accommodate the much larger bearing system. In every bearing system that I've seen taken apart, huge cavities were hollowed out in the handles and more specifically the blade tang in order to accommodate the much wider bearing system. Removing large quantities of material again at the knife's "weakest" point just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

So you end up with thinner handles and a thinner blade tang that will ultimately wear much faster than the washer system counterpart. No thank you!

I think that a lot of makers use bearings just because that's the latest craze and a lot of folks seem to think that a knife is not "premium" unless it's running on bearings.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I'm sure I'm going to get some flak for this, but it's late, I'm tired, and I'm feeling ornery. I'm not a fan of bearing pivot systems. I think that they aren't as robust as and don't have as much longevity as washers and that they are only necessary if the knifemaker doesn't want to put the effort into making a proper washer pivot. Kershaw's Skyline taught me that you don't need bearings to have a glassy smooth flipper that easily fires open with authority. In my eyes, bearing pivot systems are just feature marketing.
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I completely agree, but I'm not complaining about it. I just generally avoid bearing pivots if at all possible. But, in talking to a few big name/established makers, pivot bearing systems (especially captured bearings...ones that enclosed in a race) are generally easier to make than a blade-play free, PB washer system. To get a super smooth, no blade play in any direction pivot using washers takes more work than just using a bearing system. Particularly on flippers. Pick up a McGinnis flipper (all customs that I know of are on PB washers) and find a bearing-equipped pivot that's smoother or tighter at lockup.
 
Am I the only one that's cut up crap leading to the bearings seizing up? It's happened with orange juice a couple of times, apple juice once, and that's not including cutting up dirty crap that leaves sand in the cage leading to a gritty feeling. When I use a knife with bearings to cut something like that I have to disassemble the knife afterwards to clean it out. With washers I just wash the blade and rinse out the pivot area without having to do anything else. That's my main reason for not wanting to carry a knife that pivots on bearings. The smoothness that comes with the bearings is pretty superficial. When done correctly, washers are at least almost as smooth as bearings and bring far more functionality and easy maintenance.

Having said that, with bearings you don't need to try so hard to find the sweet spot of a centered (enough) blade and easy opening, but to me that's not enough to justify needing bearings that have to be cleaned out all the damned time.
 
IMHO complex systems can be more prone to failure, give me fewer moving parts. Rugged simplicity is my preferred form of engineering, but then I prefer a Mauser over an AR.
 
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