Is anyone else not so fond of the trend towards bearings?

I was eager to try out some knives with bearings, just because I'de never owned one before. Now I've got a few and like them a lot, they haven't changed my life nor are the bearings the only thing I like about them.
 
Custom Shirogorov on washers flips better then standard Shirogorov on bearings - it's fact.
Especially if you take 111 with such big enough blade..
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RussianWoodStock said:
Custom Shirogorov on washers flips better then standard Shirogorov on bearings - it's fact.
Especially if you take 111 with such big enough blade..
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I think that is more of a testament to the attention to detail of a custom and not the actual system they chose to use. A more apples to apples comparison would be a custom example of both build methods.
 
Bearing pivots are a solution to a problem I don't have. I file them away in the same category as recurves, black/tiger stripe coating, assisted opening, designer Damascus, "nightmare" grinds and busy/fiddly cosmetic touches. These aren't deal breakers but certainly not worth paying extra to acquire.
 
bodog said:
Am I the only one that's cut up crap leading to the bearings seizing up? It's happened with orange juice a couple of times, apple juice once, and that's not including cutting up dirty crap that leaves sand in the cage leading to a gritty feeling. When I use a knife with bearings to cut something like that I have to disassemble the knife afterwards to clean it out. With washers I just wash the blade and rinse out the pivot area without having to do anything else. That's my main reason for not wanting to carry a knife that pivots on bearings. The smoothness that comes with the bearings is pretty superficial. When done correctly, washers are at least almost as smooth as bearings and bring far more functionality and easy maintenance.

Having said that, with bearings you don't need to try so hard to find the sweet spot of a centered (enough) blade and easy opening, but to me that's not enough to justify needing bearings that have to be cleaned out all the damned time.
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Nope, I've had problems too, that's why I get a kick out of the "hard use" knives with bearing pivot flippers. I'm worried especially about sand or other grit that can grind around in the races and put unnecessary wear on the bearings or track. Bearing pivots are fun for a light use edc like some of the crkt products, but if my knife is going to be spending time in the dirt, PB works for me
 
I like them, but I like PB washers, too. Smooth and solid is what matters to me in a pivot. I don't mind variety.
 
Honestly, the pivot design that I think is most exciting and innovative is the bolster plates employed by Hogue. No washers, no bushings, no bearings, just burnished stainless steel plates that double as liners for the knife. Maybe Hogue patented them, but if not I really don't understand why more companies don't jump on that design innovation. Fewer parts overall, and the Hogues I've handled have all been butter smooth.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Honestly, the pivot design that I think is most exciting and innovative is the bolster plates employed by Hogue. No washers, no bushings, no bearings, just burnished stainless steel plates that double as liners for the knife.
Maybe Hogue patented them, but if not I really don't understand why more companies don't jump on that design innovation. Fewer parts overall, and the Hogues I've handled have all been butter smooth.
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Sounds interesting, I hadn't heard of it before. I'll have to look into it. I would imagine that it might present difficulties in ensuring flatness and parallelism, and I'm no expert on the benefits of greased PB/Steel contact vs greased Steel/Steel contact.
 
If I took two otherwise identical knives and had to choose without handling them Id choose Phosphor Bronze washers over any bearing system every time. IMO washers are not a corner cut, but a bearing system is a completely unnecessary corner added.
 
MIKE969 said:
- the necessary removal of material in the handles and blade tang to accommodate the much larger bearing system. In every bearing system that I've seen taken apart, huge cavities were hollowed out in the handles and more specifically the blade tang in order to accommodate the much wider bearing system. Removing large quantities of material again at the knife's "weakest" point just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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Guess you've not see the ZT 0801...no milling of the blade at all, just a small cavity in the already very thick titanium frame slabs. :)
 
Bearings are not a "deal breaker" for me but show me the same knife with washers and bearings and I'll take washers every time. I will NOT buy another knife with uncaged bearings. Most of my bearing knives are ZT's, MT, and a Boker.

I believe bearings have 4 disadvantages, YMMV

1) More moving parts + contamination issues, I work outside in the desert and I learned pretty quick to leave the bearing pivot knives at home. Lets face it bearings are unlikely to wear out or fail in a knife, but washers deal with contamination better and with less parts.

2) It seems caged bearings sometimes require using a smaller pivot. Perhaps to leave enough room for the function of the lockbar. Also many bearing knives ~ half of the blade thickness at at the pivot is removed for the bearings. Again this is more principal as we are not seeing failures, but it has to reduce the lateral strength of the blade. It also cuts the blade/pivot surface interface in half, increasing pivot wear.

3) They tend to squeak, I'd say at least half of my bearing knives squeak either during opening or closing. I can change the pivot tension, lube, etc. they still do it. Not a functional issue, but annoying.

4) No option to set pivot tension. A free swinging blade is great for a flipper but not a knife you want to open slowly and controlled. I love the fluid like tension that a high quality washer setup provides like a CRK or Les George.

Bearings have advantages too, but I suspect mostly for the manufacturer and flipper knives.

1) I suspect they allow for smoother and less blade friction over a wider range of tolerances and alignment. With washers unless the tolerances and handle gap alignment is spot on you won't get super smooth opening.

2) Bearings are great for flippers, when all you get is just the initial detent release inertia, the less friction the better.

3) Pivot screw tension impacts blade tension less. With washers (unless they use a bushing) the pivot tension has to be just right to have no play, but not induce too much friction, crucial for a flipper.

Unless it's a flipper knife, for the user I believe bearings are an answer looking for a problem that carry some additional downsides.
 
stabman said:
Guess you've not see the ZT 0801...no milling of the blade at all, just a small cavity in the already very thick titanium frame slabs. :)
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Not only that but i have never seen or heard of any bearing knife breaking at the pivot sans one spyderco southard and that didnt have anything to do with the bearings. Is it theoretically weaker? Maybe. But no weaker than a thinner blade would be. And how strong does a folding knife need to be? If you can break zt 0801 then wrong tool for the job i say.
 
The smoothest opening knife I own is a bearing flipper (Rod Olson Quick Flick), but I've got plenty of non-bearing knives that open very smoothly not the least of which are my William Henrys. Whether a folder has a bearing pivot doesn't really make that much difference to me one way or the other. Lots of other features are far more important than that when I make a buying decision.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
Not only that but i have never seen or heard of any bearing knife breaking at the pivot sans one spyderco southard and that didnt have anything to do with the bearings. Is it theoretically weaker? Maybe. But no weaker than a thinner blade would be. And how strong does a folding knife need to be? If you can break zt 0801 then wrong tool for the job i say.
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Pretty sure that broken Southard was a counterfeit and it was also because of the internal stop pin milling, not because of the bearings.
 
ebidis said:
Bearings definitely make for nice smooth action, and I don't get this lazy thing. I'm no expert, but I would think its just as difficult to execute a well done bearing pivot as it is washers. Even if a maker uses bearings, they still have to assemble the knife with enough precision so there is no slop, and a good solid lockup.

I feel this is one of the advantage of bearings is. You can have a very nice, tight pivot with no slop at all, and still have very smooth action. So, I guess you would say I like bearings.
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I completely agree (it's why I love my Brous Reloader and my ZT 0560), but you could also go the way of the reeve and do like the sebenza 21...Washers and a sleeve over the pivot to prevent over tightening while keeping the blade perfectly centered.
 
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