Is anyone else not so fond of the trend towards bearings?

PURPLEDC said:
Bearings are not aesthetic. You cant see them. A purely aesthetic touch would be an inlay or colored g10. Bearings improve the opening performance of a knife. They are just as fast if not faster than an auto or an assisted opening knife without a failure prone mechanism aiding deployment. Also by eliminating a spring or torsion bar you can close the knife one handed easier than if it had a spring pushing back on you. A properly tuned detent and washers can get you most of the way but bearings improve the ease of adjusting. Washer knives have a much smaller sweet spot. Too loose and you have play. A hair too tight and you are binding up. Bearings alow you to take up all that slack and have a tighter than normal pivot without binding. Not all performance is related to the actual cutting. If that was all that mattered then spyder holes, waves, thumbstuds and other items of convenience could be discarded as well.
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Aesthetics deals with more than just the visual, it takes all aspects of beauty into account, the beauty of a mechanism in motion falls well within the concept of aesthetics. I understand not all performance is purely cutting related, but the performance advantages of bearings strike me as either nonexistent, or so incredibly minor as to be insignificant. Certainly not objectively worth the added cost on their own merit, without the aesthetic argument of 'feel'.

If the practical advantages amount to less than 0.1 of a second in opening speed and that I can be 1/8 of a turn sloppier with my torx driver then color me unimpressed.
 
One thing occurs to me (belatedly) a larger sweet spot does little to impress me in and of itself, but could very well mean a knife that requires less frequent maintenance, which strikes me as a solid practical advantage. I've owned bearing pivot knives, but haven't noticed much of a difference, but that may just be me. Anyone notice less maintenance and more time between adjustments on bearing pivots vs washers?
 
Insipid Moniker said:
One thing occurs to me (belatedly) a larger sweet spot does little to impress me in and of itself, but could very well mean a knife that requires less frequent maintenance, which strikes me as a solid practical advantage. I've owned bearing pivot knives, but haven't noticed much of a difference, but that may just be me. Anyone notice less maintenance and more time between adjustments on bearing pivots vs washers?
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Without including lok-tite as a factor, I've had to adjust my bearing knives more than my washer knives. Bearings, in my experience, seem to come loose a little easier. Less maintenance for sure with washers with the exception of the initial washer polishing which I haven't had to do with bearings. I think there are pros and cons to both. My personal experience is that washers are less maintenance overall equalling better performance. I'm not looking for a Ferrari that is quicker off the line, I'm looking for an F150 that lasts year after year seeing use and abuse without much energy spent keeping it going into the next day and next job in a multitude of environments.
 
mqqn said:
Then I assume you don't go for the new-fangled folding knives, because they have nothing to do with straight cutting, right?

Bearings have no "bearing" on how a knife cuts. It is all about deployment on a folding knife when you begin a discussing about bearings vs washers and why someone might want a bearing pivot.

Interesting that so many people feel so threatened by bearings.

best

mqqn
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My ZT0801 Copperhead is a great knife. I like my button knives the best. They open very quickly.

 
I love bearings. A bearing pivot is actually one of my requirements in a knife these days.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Aesthetics deals with more than just the visual, it takes all aspects of beauty into account, the beauty of a mechanism in motion falls well within the concept of aesthetics. I understand not all performance is purely cutting related, but the performance advantages of bearings strike me as either nonexistent, or so incredibly minor as to be insignificant. Certainly not objectively worth the added cost on their own merit, without the aesthetic argument of 'feel'.

If the practical advantages amount to less than 0.1 of a second in opening speed and that I can be 1/8 of a turn sloppier with my torx driver then color me unimpressed.
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Common now, the beauty of the mechanism in motion? sorry, not buying it. But thats just me. Bearings arent for you. That fine. But again I dont really think 98% of the advancements we have seen in knives is actually needed. Its all based on individual preferences and what its worth to the user. Im sure than in your collection there are surely knives that have features that dont necessarily have to be there but nonetheless you enjoy them.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Common now, the beauty of the mechanism in motion? sorry, not buying it. But thats just me. Bearings arent for you. That fine. But again I dont really think 98% of the advancements we have seen in knives is actually needed. Its all based on individual preferences and what its worth to the user. Im sure than in your collection there are surely knives that have features that dont necessarily have to be there but nonetheless you enjoy them.
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Buying it or no, the concept of aesthetics is often applied to arenas beyond visual appeal, including pleasurable sensations. Honestly? I find butter smooth action to be quite appealing, I just don't think it offers any real advantage beyond the pleasure it provides. I think it's somewhat important to keep pure functionality in mind when assessing things, as it's easy to get distracted by luxury features and unnecessary flourishes. There are plenty of those flourishes and features that I completely dig, but I try hard not to let them obfuscate the purpose and nature of the knife.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I try hard not to let them obfuscate the purpose and nature of the knife.
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The purpose and nature of a fast opening knife is to open fast.
Anything that facilitates fast opening of a fast opening knife is furthering the function and purpose of that knife.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Buying it or no, the concept of aesthetics is often applied to arenas beyond visual appeal, including pleasurable sensations. Honestly? I find butter smooth action to be quite appealing, I just don't think it offers any real advantage beyond the pleasure it provides. I think it's somewhat important to keep pure functionality in mind when assessing things, as it's easy to get distracted by luxury features and unnecessary flourishes. There are plenty of those flourishes and features that I completely dig, but I try hard not to let them obfuscate the purpose and nature of the knife.
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I realize if someone REALLy wanted to they could take a leap and draw the parallels. But I dont think most view it that way. Especially a person who doesnt see the "beauty" in bearing systems to begin with. It struck me as reaching a bit. More to justify the use of the term rather than it striking me as what you were initially implying. Either way it is of no consequence. Im completely different I guess. I know and understand that a knife is a tool. But its also something that I enjoy. I dont enjoy it for its function. If I did i wouldnt want or need a folder. Any sharpened blade would suffice. Its deeper than that. For me it is the little nuances, gimmicks and gizmos that I enjoy and to me takes what was just a basic tool and now made it into a toy for an adult. Many times things in life are done for no other reason but to see if they can in fact be done. It doesnt have be a destination of purpose but rather a joy ride for me. In other words, a Toyota prius will get me where I need to go. And It has all the features needed to do so. But that doesnt mean i would pass up on the chance to drive or own a ferrari just because It has features that arent functional necessities.
 
stabman said:
The purpose and nature of a fast opening knife is to open fast.
Anything that facilitates fast opening of a fast opening knife is furthering the function and purpose of that knife.
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How much faster do bearings and smooth action make a knife open? Pretty much every modern folding knife I own can be opened almost instantly. Sure, there are some ponderous lockbacks that might be a fraction of a second slower, but if bearing pivot knives do open faster it's by such an infinitesimal amount that I honestly can't detect the difference.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
How much faster do bearings and smooth action make a knife open? Pretty much every modern folding knife I own can be opened almost instantly. Sure, there are some ponderous lockbacks that might be a fraction of a second slower, but if bearing pivot knives do open faster it's by such an infinitesimal amount that I honestly can't detect the difference.
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Thats a shame. I can tell if a knife has bearings just by opening it.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I realize if someone REALLy wanted to they could take a leap and draw the parallels. But I dont think most view it that way. Especially a person who doesnt see the "beauty" in bearing systems to begin with. It struck me as reaching a bit. More to justify the use of the term rather than it striking me as what you were initially implying. Either way it is of no consequence. Im completely different I guess. I know and understand that a knife is a tool. But its also something that I enjoy. I dont enjoy it for its function. If I did i wouldnt want or need a folder. Any sharpened blade would suffice. Its deeper than that. For me it is the little nuances, gimmicks and gizmos that I enjoy and to me takes what was just a basic tool and now made it into a toy for an adult. Many times things in life are done for no other reason but to see if they can in fact be done. It doesnt have be a destination of purpose but rather a joy ride for me. In other words, a Toyota prius will get me where I need to go. And It has all the features needed to do so. But that doesnt mean i would pass up on the chance to drive or own a ferrari just because It has features that arent functional necessities.
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This is sort of what I'm getting at, and I strongly agree. Right now, I'm just getting more and more focused on utility, performance and durability as the aspects I enjoy about knives. Heck, next year I might catch the bearing-flipper fever and be all over them.
 
It's not about speed of opening, it's about smoothness of opening.
 
CJZ said:
It's not about speed of opening, it's about smoothness of opening.
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If that is the case, I can say that my TSF Beast with PB washers is far smoother than any of the knives I've owned with bearings, and that's quite a few. It doesn't open as fast or with as much authority as say my ZT0801, it just glides open. My Spyderco Gayle Bradley is nearly as smooth for that matter. Bearing knives I own/have owned:

ZT's 0801 and 0561
Brous Bionic
Brian Tighe Mini Tighe Rod
Spyderco Southard
A few others, my memory fails me at the moment.
 
I like bearings, but a well done PB knife works too.

One thing I have noticed on the bearing knives I have bought, is that most manufacturers ship the knife with dry bearings. From correspondence with Brous, he uses Tuf-Glue on his knives. My two Microtechs and the Guardian Tactical Helix also had dry bearing when I received them. A little reel oil, and a fast, smooth opener is that much more so. So, manufacturers that use washers lube the snot out of them, but the ones that use bearing ship them dry?????:confused:
 
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