Is anyone else not so fond of the trend towards bearings?

[Lost Cosmonaut]

I would say I agree with these ideas, I do like the bearings with a carrier (like ZT uses), over the loose bearings (IKBS) style.

There's three kinds, IKBS (loose balls in a track), sealed (like ZT and Reate use) and caged (balls in a bent metal cage).

Sealed is the best for resisting debris. I would imagine that caged could have issues since dirt could collect in the back of the cage and jam up the balls. I'm not a huge fan of the loose IKBS style because maintenance is a beyotch, but I've seen a handful of knives with "IKBS" that are using caged bearings now-a-days. The advantage of an old-school IKBS is that they use more bearings in a smaller area which can resist dirt.

 

[GronK]

It's quite disturbing, I can't bear overbearingness about bearings.

Careful, don't lose your bearings.

 

[Brigadier]

Well, buggy whip manufacturers were not happy with automobiles.....

That being said, my ZT0200 is my smoothest flipper.

 

[bodog]

Purpledc, I must say, that while it obviously doesn't mean the bearings are IMPOSSIBLE to clog, I feel that those videos spoke louder than any arguing about bearings in this thread. While I've always enjoyed the few knives I have w bearings, I would feel they should never be used around any real dirty situations. The videos clearly showed that bearings can in fact be QUITE resilient. Took some balls to do that with that knife whoever did.

And Cmon folks, no one else in the world would want to waste any time even talking about this subject. I am just happy that there are people for me to talk to about this stuff.

Absolutely. Even with the disagreements and whatnot, there's hardly a better place to discuss these things. My coworkers don't really care as they generally carry gerbers and smith and Wesson blades and my wife is disgusted with hearing about it (even though she truly loves her ZT 0566BW). If there wasn't a place to discuss and argue about knife related topics, where would we be? Talking about lawnmowers and Hondas?

 

[shinyedges]

Amen, I've never met another knife enthusiast in person... bladeforums is the only place with like minded people who enjoy the same hobby. So THANKS SPARK!!!

Absolutely. Even with the disagreements and whatnot, there's hardly a better place to discuss these things. My coworkers don't really care as they generally carry gerbers and smith and Wesson blades and my wife is disgusted with hearing about it (even though she truly loves her ZT 0566BW). If there wasn't a place to discuss and argue about knife related topics, where would we be? Talking about lawnmowers and Hondas?

 

[Brigadier]

Bearings are not a "deal breaker" for me but show me the same knife with washers and bearings and I'll take washers every time. I will NOT buy another knife with uncaged bearings. Most of my bearing knives are ZT's, MT, and a Boker.

I believe bearings have 4 disadvantages, YMMV

1) More moving parts + contamination issues, I work outside in the desert and I learned pretty quick to leave the bearing pivot knives at home. Lets face it bearings are unlikely to wear out or fail in a knife, but washers deal with contamination better and with less parts.

2) It seems caged bearings sometimes require using a smaller pivot. Perhaps to leave enough room for the function of the lockbar. Also many bearing knives ~ half of the blade thickness at at the pivot is removed for the bearings. Again this is more principal as we are not seeing failures, but it has to reduce the lateral strength of the blade. It also cuts the blade/pivot surface interface in half, increasing pivot wear.

3) They tend to squeak, I'd say at least half of my bearing knives squeak either during opening or closing. I can change the pivot tension, lube, etc. they still do it. Not a functional issue, but annoying.

4) No option to set pivot tension. A free swinging blade is great for a flipper but not a knife you want to open slowly and controlled. I love the fluid like tension that a high quality washer setup provides like a CRK or Les George.

Bearings have advantages too, but I suspect mostly for the manufacturer and flipper knives.

1) I suspect they allow for smoother and less blade friction over a wider range of tolerances and alignment. With washers unless the tolerances and handle gap alignment is spot on you won't get super smooth opening.

2) Bearings are great for flippers, when all you get is just the initial detent release inertia, the less friction the better.

3) Pivot screw tension impacts blade tension less. With washers (unless they use a bushing) the pivot tension has to be just right to have no play, but not induce too much friction, crucial for a flipper.

Unless it's a flipper knife, for the user I believe bearings are an answer looking for a problem that carry some additional downsides.

Who says bearing flippers can ONLY be opened via a hard flip?

 

[mqqn]

Nothing wrong with enjoying them, but please explain to me how that makes the knife perform better?

My criterion for performance, to me, was how freely the pivot allows the action to move.

Bearings took that criterion off the charts of conventional washer systems.

In my experience, bearings are much smoother and I like them. I can tell you by feeling the action whether a knife has a bearing or not.

So for me, a knife that is smoother and has an action that seems to have no friction at all is a more enjoyable experience.

Since a person's experience with a knife; their impressions when using it, should count with the highest of criterion, in my world bearings make the knife more enjoyable to own and use.

At least in terms of the recent proliferation of both production factory made knives sporting bearing pivots, along with the shift to bearings for higher end custom folders, there must be more than just myself that feel bearings were an improvement.

I go back to my attempt to add levity, and the old man who used to only have washers as a choice, and he liked it!

Not meant to be an insult, but an amusing way to show you my opinion. It seems a little odd to me to worry that others like bearings, when in your world washers are still king.

I am not going to throw out any of my "friction-impaired" non-bearing knives.

best

mqqn

 

[Insipid Moniker]

My criterion for performance, to me, was how freely the pivot allows the action to move.

Bearings took that criterion off the charts of conventional washer systems.

In my experience, bearings are much smoother and I like them. I can tell you by feeling the action whether a knife has a bearing or not.

So for me, a knife that is smoother and has an action that seems to have no friction at all is a more enjoyable experience.

Since a person's experience with a knife; their impressions when using it, should count with the highest of criterion, in my world bearings make the knife more enjoyable to own and use.

At least in terms of the recent proliferation of both production factory made knives sporting bearing pivots, along with the shift to bearings for higher end custom folders, there must be more than just myself that feel bearings were an improvement.

I go back to my attempt to add levity, and the old man who used to only have washers as a choice, and he liked it!

Not meant to be an insult, but an amusing way to show you my opinion. It seems a little odd to me to worry that others like bearings, when in your world washers are still king.

I am not going to throw out any of my "friction-impaired" non-bearing knives.

best

mqqn

They may be smoother, but I'm asking how that affects performance. Bearings are a purely aesthetic touch, as they don't really improve your ability to open a knife, just the 'feel' of opening it. Now, there's nothing wrong with paying for luxury features, some will pay more for leather seats in their car and more power to them, but those features don't do anything to improve performance, only perception.

 

[mqqn]

They may be smoother, but I'm asking how that affects performance. Bearings are a purely aesthetic touch, as they don't really improve your ability to open a knife, just the 'feel' of opening it. Now, there's nothing wrong with paying for luxury features, some will pay more for leather seats in their car and more power to them, but those features don't do anything to improve performance, only perception.

The blade deploys and retracts more smoothly and faster.

That is better performance.

best

mqqn

 

[K.O.D.]

I can give or take. I have three knives with bearings--ZT 0801, 0560, and Brous Bionic. I like them, but my TSF Beast with PB washers is far smoother.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

The blade deploys and retracts more smoothly and faster.

That is better performance.

best

mqqn

More smoothly, maybe, faster? Not in any meaningful way. And I still don't see any performance advantage in a knife being smooth. It's nice, and a quality that makes the knife more enjoyable, but it doesn't really make the knife do anything better.

 

[mqqn]

More smoothly, maybe, faster? Not in any meaningful way. And I still don't see any performance advantage in a knife being smooth. It's nice, and a quality that makes the knife more enjoyable, but it doesn't really make the knife do anything better.

I guess in your mind faster and smoother is not better performance, and I consider that better performance.

We'll end on that note, and here's to today's most excellent variety of high-quality production knives; there is something for everyone.

best

mqqn

 

[GatorFlash1]

My criterion for performance, to me, was how freely the pivot allows the action to move.

Bearings took that criterion off the charts of conventional washer systems.

In my experience, bearings are much smoother and I like them. I can tell you by feeling the action whether a knife has a bearing or not.

So for me, a knife that is smoother and has an action that seems to have no friction at all is a more enjoyable experience.

Since a person's experience with a knife; their impressions when using it, should count with the highest of criterion, in my world bearings make the knife more enjoyable to own and use.

At least in terms of the recent proliferation of both production factory made knives sporting bearing pivots, along with the shift to bearings for higher end custom folders, there must be more than just myself that feel bearings were an improvement.

I go back to my attempt to add levity, and the old man who used to only have washers as a choice, and he liked it!

Not meant to be an insult, but an amusing way to show you my opinion. It seems a little odd to me to worry that others like bearings, when in your world washers are still king.

I am not going to throw out any of my "friction-impaired" non-bearing knives.

best

mqqn

So what do you really think? I like a knife that cuts straight and smooth.

 

[K.O.D.]

Obviously, lock and blade performance is the most important park of a knife. I like to work with my hands but for the last ten years have been a desk jockey, so taking breaks and opening and closing my knives gets me through the day, and smooth opening knives make it that much better.

For pure cutting performance, my Manix 2 CTS-XHP is my preference, along with the Gayle Bradley. But for sitting at work twiddling my thumbs, I'll take one of my four flippers or the TSF Beast.

 

[TheChunk91]

I like ball bearings, they are a very nice feature. However I think its asinine to put ball bearings in a knife marketed and built as heavy duty/overbuilt etc, thats a design inconsistency. The problem is that many knives with ball bearings are heavy duty/overbuilt, if only common sense would enter the fray in this regard it would be problem solved.

 

[PURPLEDC]

They may be smoother, but I'm asking how that affects performance. Bearings are a purely aesthetic touch, as they don't really improve your ability to open a knife, just the 'feel' of opening it. Now, there's nothing wrong with paying for luxury features, some will pay more for leather seats in their car and more power to them, but those features don't do anything to improve performance, only perception.

Bearings are not aesthetic. You cant see them. A purely aesthetic touch would be an inlay or colored g10. Bearings improve the opening performance of a knife. They are just as fast if not faster than an auto or an assisted opening knife without a failure prone mechanism aiding deployment. Also by eliminating a spring or torsion bar you can close the knife one handed easier than if it had a spring pushing back on you. A properly tuned detent and washers can get you most of the way but bearings improve the ease of adjusting. Washer knives have a much smaller sweet spot. Too loose and you have play. A hair too tight and you are binding up. Bearings alow you to take up all that slack and have a tighter than normal pivot without binding. Not all performance is related to the actual cutting. If that was all that mattered then spyder holes, waves, thumbstuds and other items of convenience could be discarded as well.

 

[mqqn]

So what do you really think? I like a knife that cuts straight and smooth.

Then I assume you don't go for the new-fangled folding knives, because they have nothing to do with straight cutting, right?

Bearings have no "bearing" on how a knife cuts. It is all about deployment on a folding knife when you begin a discussing about bearings vs washers and why someone might want a bearing pivot.

Interesting that so many people feel so threatened by bearings.

best

mqqn

 

[BenchCo Spydermade]

Bearings are not aesthetic. You cant see them. A purely aesthetic touch would be an inlay or colored g10. Bearings improve the opening performance of a knife. They are just as fast if not faster than an auto or an assisted opening knife without a failure prone mechanism aiding deployment. Also by eliminating a spring or torsion bar you can close the knife one handed easier than if it had a spring pushing back on you. A properly tuned detent and washers can get you most of the way but bearings improve the ease of adjusting. Washer knives have a much smaller sweet spot. Too loose and you have play. A hair too tight and you are binding up. Bearings alow you to take up all that slack and have a tighter than normal pivot without binding. Not all performance is related to the actual cutting. If that was all that mattered then spyder holes, waves, thumbstuds and other items of convenience could be discarded as well.

The guy meant aesthetic cuz it is more pleasurable to maneuver. So kinesthetic.

But it can just as easily be argued that opening smoothly and with less needed effort improves function/ease and consistency of opening. Its all in how you look at it.

 

[Ouchyfoot]

Whatever suits. I think some bigger, heavier blades, especially flippers can benefit from bearings to help move that blade. The benchmade 761 literally flies so fast on its bearings you get recoil. The Reate Hills also snaps out like a rocket, but with its strong detent, I think you coul put cardboard washers and it would do just as well.
I'm not so sure about smaller, lighter EDC blades though. I think the little Brous Bionic is a failure. I think this knife would have benefitted with washers, with less milling work. Bearings are only as good as the surface they're rolling on.

 

[PURPLEDC]

The guy meant aesthetic cuz it is more pleasurable to maneuver. So kinesthetic.

But it can just as easily be argued that opening smoothly and with less needed effort improves function/ease and consistency of opening. Its all in how you look at it.

Im not sure that word applies either in regards to the topic.