Is anyone else "not so into" gear?

My only real interest in trying lots of different and/or new gear is to find what works best for me. It just happens that I've been finding lately that lots of "old school" gear tends to work best for me. However, I do quite appreciate having a good new tent and pack on certain hikes. Modern hiking boots are good, too. But a lot of the clothing, navigation equipment, etc. I use is rather classic stuff. I tend to try to get rid of gear that I never use.

And +1 to hollowdweller's post.

As an example, I like to carry things like flashlights and, especially, water filters and a propane stove at times. They're especially useful above treeline in the mountains when there's no firewood within 10 miles.
 
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I must admit to a little gay pride here. I like gear. Some gear I like more than others, but I am drawn to it. For the longest time, I subscribed to popular science and popular mechanics just for their 'whats new' sections.

On the other hand, I don't go out like a mad hatter and buy everything that is out there. Nobody in their right mind can do that. I do like to keep my ear to the ground for things that could be helpful and has a decent convience gained/cost ratio. I think spending $300 on titanium cookware is silly, but then I really like to have my MSR water filter or chlorine tabs in areas where I will need it rather than having to boil. In fact I like all three methods and the fact that they have different advantages. The tabs take up no room, but on the other hand require long contact period to ensure efficacy. The water filter is heavier and bulkier, but it provides water really quick. The boiling method requires set up time (stove = equipment) or fire and can be intermediate in time of results.

I am intrigued with different ways of going about the same tasks. I am accustomed to tents and camping with tents, but part of me wants to buy a hammock to try that out and also to get a silnylon tarp and try a more simple approach. To me, a sil-nylon tarp is a new technology and I am interested in exploring it and its uses.

I recognize that my outdoors trips are rarely of a uniform type or goal. Sometimes it is day trips, sometimes it is car camping, occasionally it is backpacking, sometimes it is a no-nonsense work related trip where I want all the conveniences I can possibly have, sometimes it is for photography, sometimes it is to do a gear review.

I want to have a variety of gear to pick and choose from and tailor to the needs of a particular trip. If that means I want to have a camping trip and explore primitive techniques - well then even that may require specialized gear (e.g. flint & steel) depending on what I want to do. For me, there is a strange interplay between gear and outdoors experiences. Sometimes the gear itself drives my activity for going outdoors, sometimes it is something else.

So if a new widget makes a lot of sense to me from a practical standpoint than I am usually interested in it. I don't necessarily have to have the latest and greatest things. I do sort of pride myself on being somewhat aware of what types of technologies exist and what ones are most appropriate for the activities I engage in. I think my discovery of a ferro-steel on this forums is one of the greatest things since sliced cheese, but I still flick my bick on occasion.

My approach to cutlery is also similar along these lines. I like trying out different configurations under different circumstances to see what works well and conforms to my acceptable performance criteria. Then again, one difference with cutlery is that I also enjoy the aesthetics of the item, where this comes less into play for other types of gear. I do have one of those don't shoot me yellow packs - but I'd rather a much more functionalized pack like one offered by maxpedition.
 
I know what I like, but I don't know I like it until I try it. So I have gone through a bit of gear. My setup is fairly minimal now, but I am not able to hike as much anymore. We do quite a bit of camping though and we like to be comfortable in our tent and around the fire. That usually means more blankets and seating though.
 
hollowdweller said:
This thread sort of confuses me:confused:

On one hand it's about being too hung up on gear, then on the other hand people who travel light are being panned and taking the slow approach is being somehow equated with not being hung up on gear????:rolleyes:
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Dunno I kind of saw it the other way. Maybe it's just my prejudice, but my philosophy of smelling the roses is part of my justification for not carrying a bunch of crap. See, I cut weight by not carrying as many things, rather than have a huge packing list of ultralightweight (and ultra pricey) stuff.

hollowdweller said:
I agree gear is no substitute for skills, but part of the skill is to know how to travel light. Also what gear to carry for the geography, weather, and terrain. Sometimes that means taking different sets of stuff different times.

So yeah I agree that people shouldn't be hung up on too much stuff. However to carry heavy and outdated stuff when simple stuff is available is denying yourself more enjoyment on the trail.:thumbup:
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Heavy and outdated? Outdated, maybe, not useful, as good as or in some cases better than new stuff? No. Heavy? Not necessarily. Read some of Kephart or Nessmuk's stuff, and look at their weights.

I really can't see saving 2 ounces by taking a titanium cup over my Olicamps. Can I get a lighter bag than my MSS patrol bag (which weighs 3 pounds)/ Sure, with the same temp rating. But why? To save what, half a pound?

Let's see, what I'll take, as far as durable goods, in my Wanderer for a dayhike or weekender:
2 Nalgenes
2 Olicamp nesting cups for the Nalgenes.
MSS patrol bag & bivy.
3 Pairs socks
Spare shirt
FAK (think AMK .9 Ultralight), includes Bug dope and MicroPur tablets
8x10 Sil tarp (which I bought because I got it for $40 on eBay)
Approx 100' of paracord -- some precut for setting up tarp, the rest for other tasks, to be cut at the time.
Map & Compass
Fire kit (tinder, 2 Bic lighters, aluminum matchcase w/matches, ferro rod)
Pack towel

All together this runs about 16 pounds, including pack weight.
add 2 quarts of water, there's 20 pounds.
Add knives -- not carried in pack -- say 5 pounds for a kukri, 4.5" fixed blade and SAK. 25 pounds.
Food, say for a weekender, say 5 pounds for enough bread, cheese and summer sausage/pepperoni/hard salami, plus tea bags, to really pig out for a weekender.

OK 30 pounds for a 4 season (in FL) bag and gear, not including clothes I'm wearing. That's carrying things I don't need so much as want, such as the kukri and a LOT of food.

Considering I'm in good shape (no six pack, but you can see my abs), and still over 200 pounds, I'm not going to cry, or slow down much with that weight on my back.

But I am going to smell those roses. :D
 
To me the issue isn't what's new and hip so much as learning what to leave behind.

I've been backpacking for a few decades and early on -- as an impressionable lad -- I subscribed Colin Fletcher (bless him) approach that basically had you taking everything conceivable with you. I went far and long with it, but as I look back, it was less about backpacking than it was about being a pack animal. I pared down over the years, of course, but still..

I ignored the first couple of years of the ultralight trend, because I figured I had a workable system. But when I did look at UL, I was impressed.

What got me most was not the gear: it was the ultralight folks relentless desire to leave unnecessary things behind and rethink what was being carried. UL is about simplifying your experience and making stuff yourself.

I mean, thank god the UL gang brought us quilts (a new old fashioned bedroll and more sensible than mummy bags) and merino and lighter boots and silnylon tarps. Even Tyvek!.

If you take the ultralight vision and couple it with the bushcraft meme, you get something close to the perfect outdoors approach.

That's because you end up leaving anything behind that you can leave behind and having the tools/knowledge necessary to make the things you need in the wild. And yes, the knife is central to bushcraft!

Now *that's* fun and light too. Not gear crazy.

At this point I've got my pack down to 15~ lbs for a five-day trip (food not included) and I'm having a lot more fun. And other than the silnylon bits, there isn't a single piece of that that newer than 5 years and most is older than 10.

So now, when I look at gear I only ask one question: can I leave it behind?
 
I like the basic and to travel with the minimum, but water filters and stove have there place. Camping where there is no wood collecting and pit fires allowed, because you are above 10,000 feet. A stove is the only way to get that hot meal on a cloudy, cold June or September day.
Or walking a long a creek, seeing the clear and cool the water. Thinking it times to fill the canteen, and there is a dead deer carcass lying in the water. Keep walking a little farther up stream and use that water filter.
Equipment only makes you more comfortable, so you may enjoy your time in the open spaces. If you can get by with less, so be it. But, I prefer to feel confidence about knowing I won’t feel ill while on or after a trip. And that my foot print will be unrecognizable when I have passed.
 
It's weird, I used to think that I was into gear, but I was never able to afford the more extravagant lightweight gear, but now that I could probably afford it I'm going with minimalizing ‘on-the-cheap’. For example I'm using a coffee can for cooking, one of those blue $10.00 tarps from walmart (mine’s 6x8' and brown), and my favorite knife is a little mora 510 (the F1 is good also but a completely different 'attitude' -- great for ‘survivaling’ though, lol). The only really pricy piece of gear would be my bivy, but it keeps me dry and it’s used year round.

(I would like to find a lighter tarp though... lol)

But yeah, most of my gear doesn't get stressed about, it's more of a "practical? lightweight enough?" type thing, then over time I'll work on lightening the load with lighter gear.

~30lbs (with food) will last me a very comfy week or two. I'm always in for lightening the pack.
 
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gear can be really great-as long as it works.

as a rule, the more complicated a thing is the more likely it is to malfunction...

i don't like to carry things. this goes beyond trying to avoid carrying a lot of weight to the point of not liking to carry alot of stuff. as simple as i can get my pack load the better...fewer things to keep track of and this also generally keeps it lighter weight.

there are quite a few things that can make trail or camp life much easier and more convenient, but in a way i think that it is almost like you are just bringing mini-versions of your day to day items with you instead of really getting down in the dirt.

of course, in some areas this is somewhat necessary, and depending on how you enjoy the outdoors you may need to bring more technical items like stoves and other gadgets and gear...

but as a rule i try to cut out as much as i can, to make my woods experience a little simpler and less cluttered.
 
I like gear but I despise gadgets. I like kit that extends my capabilities and I always have a quiet chuckle at the dogmatic. Outdoor fabrics enhance my performance whether that be clothing, boots, or tarps. I've done the wool and waxed jacket thing, and spent hours rubbing various wax concoctions into heavy leather boots, and I've lumbered around with a great many versions of tarps. Does Gortex, Pertex, fleece, Silnylon .etc improve my capabilities, hell yeah. I can travel, further, faster, lighter, with less fatigue, more comfortably, and more safely than with some of the gear I've used in the past. I'm sure anyone that has tabbed with webbing burns, and with wet shrinking webbing, from some of the old style kit could do nothing other than rejoice at modern kit carrying systems.

Similarly, I'm very fond of my water filter. True, I could hump more water. I could recourse to boiling. I could use puritabs and some primitive filter. Yet those options are potentially slower, heavier, less safe, use more fuel, and taste nasty, depending on which you pick.

Let's consider simple gas stoves too. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that modern gas stoves are a huge improvement over those early unstable pierce the canister jobs. We now have stable low profile offerings, with remote canisters that can be kept warm, and pre-heater tubes. Anyone that has tried to get gas of an old style gas stove in cold weather or at altitude, in a confined space, whilst precariously balancing a pot on the top must surely see the advantage of exploiting what modern technology offers.

Again, consider modern LED lamps. They have brightness and duration that makes alternatives laughable. Even my first generation Petzl zoom that I loved so much for years is shite compared to modern alternatives. Even with a ramped up halogen bulb in it the output is lame. And even with the standard glow worm bulb the battery life is awful.

I can think of a whole bunch of things that technology and gear evolution has done to my trips more pleasurable and / or safer. Some things are obvious like having knives made from decent stainless and synthetics, some things are more subtle like the Fox or Storm whistles. If I could be bothered to list others it would be long and tiresome.

On the other hand, just as much as the dogmatic always raise a smile, kit freaks often amuse me. That's never more evident than when they post pics of gear that has clearly never been used. It made it out on a day hike as a prop to be dangled or stuck in a tree in a photo, but its potential has never been realized beyond that. Those people really make me smirk because they are consumers being marketed at, and beyond a bit of back slapping in a forum somewhere the gear will never really be used. To borrow from the world of computers for a moment, I think it is very similar to those who upgrade their machines because they are told there is a better one, or their mate has a better one. The fact they probably never did anything interesting that pushed the envelope of their last two machines won't deter them from wanting a better one. I have no more time for that mentality than I have watching people buy white goods.

Sticking with the computer buying analogy though and it would be folly to damn all those that own the better ones, or indeed those of us eager in anticipation of the next advance in the technology. There's whopping difference between a pleb that wants the latest just to connect to the interwebs, or do email, or office tasks, and the hardcore gamer that also wants so swing round massive image files in CS4 extended. I find that to be a direct parallel with difference between those of us that go play for days in the wet and cold, and those that day hiked a huge [hilarious, I do three daily before breakfast 'cos the dog needs a stretch and a dump] five miles sporting an immaculate Endlessrepetition-fatboy-milspec sack crammed with the latest items they'll never use. Some call all that latent unrealized potential redundancy, all I can see is a comical waste.

Yup, big difference between items not only in terms of gadgets and gimmicks versus kit, but also across another dimension, motivation and suitability for purpose. Still, the losers in this game aint the funniest. The funniest are not the victims of marketing and the next new bit of technology. The funniest are the victims marketed at with old technology flying a new badge. You don't get better kit chuckle than a case of the sucker in the Emperor's New Clothes.
 
I think I'm like most of you. Over the years I've found the gear I like and I tend to stick with it. But what I take backpacking is different from what I take backcountry camping which is different from what I take front country camping which is different from what I take primitive camping. Each activity has a different goal. But I use what I use now and am probably not incline to change anythng without a pretty good reason. So, I guess, I tend to glass over when it comes to gear discussions, too.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Heavy and outdated? Outdated, maybe, not useful, as good as or in some cases better than new stuff? No. Heavy? Not necessarily. Read some of Kephart or Nessmuk's stuff, and look at their weights.

I really can't see saving 2 ounces by taking a titanium cup over my Olicamps. Can I get a lighter bag than my MSS patrol bag (which weighs 3 pounds)/ Sure, with the same temp rating. But why? To save what, half a pound?
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Yeah but Nessmuk was a total ultralight gear head fanatic. If he could save a few ounces he'd do it. He had his hatchet and his canoes made custom to be ultralight. IMO Nessmuk was the quinessential light weight gear fanatic.

Also if you read Kephardt he was also on that track. To the point of even touting out of country lightweight gear.

I agree with you that some things are not worth replacing. I have an oilcamp too:thumbup:

But I had several pounds in my Coleman Peak 1 and fuel for a weekend. My pot with 2 bails that I can use over a fire and a lightweight alcohol stove for quick morning coffee or rain, weighs a fraction of that.

I have 3 sleeping bags. A zero that weighs probably 5 lbs, a Campmor that weighs a little over 2, 20 degree and a 40 degree Lafuma that is about the size of a water bottle and weighs 1lb 6oz. All have their place but the Lafuma was worth the sixty bucks.

IMO a pack that weighs 2 or 3 lbs over a 5 or 6 lb pack is worth buying.

From 1985 to 2001 I boiled all my water. In 02 I got a water filter for the first time. Well worth the 1 lb. I can hike farther and am far less dehydrated. Also it saves stove fuel.

I can say without a doubt that backpacking is a much less grueling experience than when I had 6 lbs in my pack, 5 lbs in my sleeping bag, 10 lbs in my tent, 3 lbs in my stove and fuel and about 2 or 3 lbs in my cookware, 5 lbs in my clothes.
 
I guess as long as they are not trying to "reinvent the wheel" there are many ways that we benefit from these new technological advances. New cutting edge technologies lead to things such as smaller GPS handheld units , lighter more functional packs, powerful LED lights with longer battery life and better performing outerwear materials which can only make our outdoor experiences that much more enjoyable IMHO.
 
Interesting discussion. I was going to suggest Nessmuk (but Hollowdweller beat me to it). I think we could do worse than start with his list and add only what we'll actually use. (His food choices are pretty awful.) And remember, he carried a 9 or 10 lb muzzleloader.

I would add my small surefire, a compass, a small FAK, a firemaking kit, essential meds., spare glasses, small binocular, small survival kit. I'd substitute a lightweight sleeping bag for his blanket roll. You get the idea. Each thing gets added only if it can perform a function I need on a specific trip. When I walk up the hill to hunt, I don't carry all that stuff, but I carry my cellphone in case I fall and have to call home to get someone to drag me out.

Cheers, Richard
 
Everything you buy, or don't, becomes a tradeoff. If you were hunting, and had to covers some area, you would not be carrying a pocket cooker, flint and steel, and a canvas tarp. Likewise, if you wanted to sit quiet in the woods and spend some quality time there, the sound of cordura and a Whisperlite is not particularly appealing.

Use the gear you have and enjoy it. The only thing you can mess up is buying gear you don't want or need. At times I light a fire with a firesteel, and look for shelter under trees, etc., but I also have a pack with $800 in it for when I want to cover ground. Those with no gear could laugh at my pack, and call me an idiot, but can't cover ground in comfort the same way.

I've cooked over a fire, and I've cooked w/ stoves. I have gone out for overnighters with only a tarp and a shoulder bag, and done multiday trips with lightweight packs full of modern technology.

While primitive ways and gear are interesting, there is good reason for the newer stuff. Just because a person carries old gear does not somehow make them better than the one who carries newer stuff. To me, skill and experience are much more impressive than what gear you carry. I have seen guys with all the widgets, that pack them because they are so useful to them. Everything they bring has a purpose, and gets used. To me that is much more impressive than the fool in the vido that was selling the tarp and wool blanket kit. Yes he had minimal, oldschool gear, but he obviously had no clue about how to use it. Sorry, skill trumps whatever you choose to carry gearwise, whether it be old or new, heavy or light, modern or outdated.
 
Lots of good stuff here.

I did not mean to sound like I would take old school over new stuff for the sake of disliking new stuff. I guess it did come off a bit that way, but I didn't mean it. Most of you have already hit on what I meant, and that is "knowing what is important, and what to leave behind.

Baldtaco also said it well when he said:

baldtaco-II said:
I like gear but I despise gadgets.
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For me, light is right and modern equipment=light weight. I read one of the posters stating that modern gear "takes the fun out of it"(paraphrasing a bit, I think). IMO, being ill-equipped takes the fun out of it much more. If you happen to live in an area where you can get away with cotton, that's great, but it's odd(for me) to think modern gear doesn't make life much easier and safer in many regions of the continent. And if you're lookng to buy high-tech versions of natural fibres, you're spending piles of money as well. I think it comes down to what you define as a good outdoors experience. For me, it's about getting out and "doing", be it paddling, climbing, or back-packing. Many of the members' definition here, are to me, things I'd do while at the camp. And then I have refuge of the camp to go back to. Like it was stated earlier, not all places have wood for making fires, so a good stove is very much a welcome piece of kit.
I'm very much a gear guy, but I don't replace gear unless it's in need of being replaced.But I do find it kinda funny reading about taking gear into the bush when many here would have no issue lugging eight knives into the bush without batting an eye:D
 
I've been hittting the trails a lot lately and have been studying orienteering using only my compass. I have seeen some pretty cool GPS units that can do trail maps and all kinds of stuff and I want one. But I have been holding out until I am absolutely comfortable being in the woods with only a compass and map.

I agree with what Mr. Mears said about "breaking the spell". Technology re-connects you to what, in my opinion, we am attempting to break away from by being "out there". I prefer to be in-line with nature not conquering it. I have plenty of gear myself, but it is simple, light and needed. Anything beyond that is a burden.
 
The things that I do need, I like to invest and get something really good, like my sleeping bag, compass, knife, my new big agnes insulated air core (thanks for the recommendations guys! cant wait to try this one out on the snow when it lands).

Some stuff is just frivolous though. I understand having a high tech stove and titanium cookware if your climbing mountains, but for regular hiking? Really?

I was in MEC last week, took a look at some clothes. $95 for a wool sweater, I laughed in the clerks face, thats gotta be some kind of joke. Silnylon tarps for $70! I bought 3 blue tarps from canadian tire for $12 a month ago, 2 are already full of holes from the fire.

I like reading hearing about new gear, shopping for it and putting it to use, but some stuff is just overpriced because they know there's a market who will pay 2-3x what something is worth. To use Baldtaco's computer analogy, it's like buying the latest technology right when it comes out when you could wait a month and get it for half the cost, the people who spend double probably dont need that extra bit of power, they were probably getting by just fine without it, it's just that they have disposable income and that kind of mentality.
 
When I do purchase new gear, I always do a ton of research first. Then I buy the best that I can afford that will meet ALL my needs so I don't end up with a bunch of stuff that doesn't get used. If I'm considering a stove or a tent, it's got to be right for extended packing trips or mountain excursions as well as car camping. So what I end up with is a smaller pile of quality gear that gets used for everything. Several of my big ticket items have been in service for ten years or more. As far as gadget type stuff goes... too much stuff = too much weight = not enough fun. Of course when it comes to my knife collection there is a completely different set of rules. Actually, there are no rules. :D

Jeff
 
It's nice at the end of the trip to make a list of all the things you used and the ones you didn't.

Some stuff like first aid, or rainwear if rain is predicted but didn't come is worth taking again.

For me, the harder choices are light clothes that are warm, and whether to take extra clothes.

On my last trip I took a change of clothes I never used and one extra insulated top I didn't use. Since I don't go a lot in the cold it was hard for me to discern how much was too much.

Normally in the summer I have a pair of lightweight nylon shorts and then a convertible set of pants. I'm thinking in winter about buying 2 pair of the same convertible pants but just bringing the tops then if they got wet I'd just let the legs dry out and swap out the top part. Usually I have a "hiking" set of clothes and a "camp" set that I use while the hiking ones dry out.
 
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