Is Benchmade losing their edge?

[J.Davey]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit ever since I received their 2007 catalog. It just seems to me that they are slipping when it comes to new designs and innovation. I've always been a devoted Benchmade user, owning and carrying at one time or another a Monolock, TSEK, AFCK, blue handled OCT 2000 Osborne, Nimravus Cub, Stryker...Hell, I had a Bushmaster back in the early 90's! I have to admit, that I was not impressed with their 2007 line-up. For the most part, it just seems like they are doing the same old same old. I know much of this has to do with what buyers demand, but it seems like they have lost their willingness to try anything really new as far as designs go. I also think they could re-work some of their designs (an AXIS Stryker would be nice, or how about a titanium handled, frame locking TSEK or AFCK), and bring back a few that have been proven favorites, like the AFCK and Nimravus Cub (which I liked a ton more than the full size Nimravus). Admittedly, I wouldn't mind seeing them do a new version of the Delta Raider fixed blade either. What do you all think?

 

[DaveH]

They've been pretty much the same old same old for years.

Every once in a while they'll have something truly new, but it's few and far between lately.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Well, that and the fact that their "design" and "innovation" departments seem to be located in Golden Colorado nowadays. After while, folks simply start buying the real thing.

 

[thombrogan]

Every once in a while they'll have something truly new, but it's few and far between lately.

The Rukus family and Morpho sure look truly new to me.

Well, that and the fact that their "design" and "innovation" departments seem to be located in Golden Colorado nowadays.

Yeowch! They might also start using R&D from Tualatin, Oregon; beyond 'assisted opening,' that is. The odd thing is that Benchmade's designers completely have the skills to do their own thing and when they do, it's breathtaking, but life only stops being confusing when we die I guess.

 

[jujigatame]

The only models I've really liked from Benchmade in the past few years were the 520/525 and the 425. Pretty much everything else new from them is uninspiring. Some of the models catch the eye at first, but after further inspection there just doesn't seem to be much there worthy of spending the money to me. Save for having a 525 and a 210, all my other Benchmades are older/discontinued models and nothing that's coming out of Oregon City right now looks ready to change that. Kershaw and Spyderco, on the other hand, have several new models that I'm eager to see and would be willing to pony up for.

 

[msiley]

I think they are pretty innovative. They are using more higher end
steels like D2 and S30V. They have also expiramented with M2... how
many companies have done that? They just came out with
the Lum line and updated the Stryker line.

I'm more concerned about making knives better then them (or any
manufacturer) coming
out with spectacular designs. I would rather have them spend
time on making knives with stronger locks, better/different steels, better
blade and edge geometries, and better handles.

I think their 710 is the best they have made ever.
It's tough to beat in all the things I mentioned above.

I actually prefer simpler functional designs then over the top
'tacticals.' (e.g. Dark Ops) Focus should be on what makes
a knife better functionally. Aesthetics are secondary (to me).

 

[Blop]

Well as i see a contradiction in demanding new designs and re-work of old models.

In general i found BM uses more traditional designs topped with some "Custom - works". Nothing really exotic, so i don´t miss anything.

I found, there are many models and wonder how far this will go or how long it will take until they reduce it back on basics.

As Joe Talmadage once said, he expected CRKT to push Benchmade by coming out with models of great quality and design, he was dissapointed that CRKT went the cheapy way.

Instead BM and Spyderco push CRKT and the like by running the market with great knives on low prices.

Once i said, if BM ´won ´t sell any blue or black class models, they should count it on their own red class.

BM drops models earlier than before. What doesn ´t sell, won ´t be produced. Decision is made pretty soon. Sooner as they were deciding years ago IMHO.

Many models / quick out of production, that are the changes i have noticed.

 

[Blop]

I actually prefer simpler functional designs then over the top
'tacticals.' (e.g. Dark Ops) Focus should be on what makes
a knife better functionally. Aesthetics are secondary (to me).

Yes, that is something they really know about. Great simplicity.

The Vex is a good example.

 

[Tetsusaiga]

I like the old discontinued BM, like the 720 and a new fav of mine, the 730 ARES, absolutely oozes class... especially the Ares.. like the 710 too.. mm... i seem to like their 7-series knives a lot..

 

[iamsmiling]

I've only purchased a "red-box" Vex. It is China made but the quality of the work is excellent for the price. If they didn't make the opening detent too strong I'd like it a lot better.

 

[Alberta Ed]

I like my Mini-Rukus a lot... there really isn't a whole lot about blades that hasn't been done before, so it's not easy being new and innovative. I think BM does an excellent job with offering what the public will buy. Just my two cents...

 

[Kenblade]

I think BM is still innovative.
They are collaborating with Bob Lum for 2007...for Spydie fans.

 

[Artfully Martial]

I'm disappointed in a foreign made line, but outside of that...

The morpho is one of, if not the best knife I've ever used. Very innovative for a production bali.

The Rukus' two tone scales is very cool, and Benchmade offers replaceable ones.

I think the Skirmishes are also pretty innovative...not technologically, just the style.

Benchmade has a very successful formula that they're not tampering with...great axis lock knives and great balisongs....I think their liner locks are the best out there too, but it's those first two things that prevents innovation--there's just not that much room for improvement there.

But I would like to see more steel experimentation, especially since Spyderco simply won't do carbon steels.

On a side note, I sometimes feel like the Spyderco being super innovative thing is a little unfair to Benchmade...Spyderco is almost exclusively making 40-150 dollar folders, so of course they'll have more variety in designs. benchmade makes OTFs, autos, several different balis (arguably Spyderco doesn't make *any* balis anymore...they're certainly hard to get), a full set of kitchen knives, quasi-custom gold class knives, tons of FBs...
Point being, I'm sure we'd see quicker development on folders if that's pretty much the only thing they made.

As a company though, the red class line has really devalued Benchmade as this "premium" brand where the entire lineup is considered excellent.

 

[jfindon]

Benchmade has a very successful formula that they're not tampering with

Yep, in the end they are a business trying to make money, and if demand is high enough and they are getting tons of order I wouldn't think they'd want to risk losing that forcing new ideas out.

 

[HoB]

Well as i see a contradiction in demanding new designs and re-work of old models.

Spyderco has been able to do that for years. Just imagine if they would offer a sprint run of AFCKs with CF handles for example. People (including me) would bring down the phonelines of NGK the moment they would be announced.

Speaking of CF: BM used to do very attractive and attractively priced sprint runs of their models, such as the CF Ares or some with wood handle....haven't seen much of that lately either.

And their new designs seem to be mostly driven by "mine is bigger and more bad a$$ than yours", and some intelligently designed smaller knives are dropped and nothing new is coming. Where is the replacement of the Big Spender for example?

I think simplicity is what they are pretty bad at: I wouldn't call the Skirmish exactly simplistic or funtionally driven and the Rukus neither.

They are using more higher end
steels like D2 and S30V. They have also expiramented with M2... how
many companies have done that?

Well, Kershaw is currently out-doing them in that departement playing around with CPM154 and ZDP189 and some Sandvik steels and Spyderco has long run away from the competition as far as steel selection goes and there are still more sprint runs coming. Using four pretty common and well known steels, I wouldn't call innovative. When have they ever tried using a steel that nobody had ever heard of, like Spyderco with VG-10, H-1, and ZDP189 and in many ways even with ATS-55.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

I noted that on the Benchmade forum this year, there was a lot of discussion about this year's new offerings, along with a lot of disappointment. Contrast with the Spyderco forum, where people are fired up over this year's offerings.

I don't think Benchmade has lost their edge. For me, it's the difference between 10 new models of which 8 interest me (as in past years) and 10 new models of which 2 interest me (as in this year). Fewer of their knives interest me than before, but the ones that do are great. Their production values are still very high as well. The bad news is, contrast that with Spyderco, who once again are going to get me to buy a whole lot of models. And note that I am decidedly not a Spyderco or Benchmade partisan -- I like knives, not companies (in fact, it wasn't that long ago that my opinion about Spyderco and Benchmade were exactly reversed). It's just that BM hasn't been holding my interest as much of late.

 

[Bungwrench]

Benchmade used to interest me when they had the AFCK, TSEK, ARES, and others in their line up. These days, they don't interest me at all. Yes, they have lost their edge.

 

[msiley]

Well, Kershaw is currently out-doing them in that departement playing around with CPM154 and ZDP189 and some Sandvik steels and Spyderco has long run away from the competition as far as steel selection goes and there are still more sprint runs coming. Using four pretty common and well known steels, I wouldn't call innovative. When have they ever tried using a steel that nobody had ever heard of, like Spyderco with VG-10, H-1, and ZDP189 and in many ways even with ATS-55.

ATS-55 is just an inexpensive ATS-34 (that was the goal at least).
Spyderco uses H-1, Benchmade uses X15 T.N.
Spyderco has VG-10, Benchmade uses 154CM very close.

If you match steel for steel It's probably about even.

BM does make special runs like Spyderco.
They recently made an S30V run of the mini-presidio.
Before that they made a small batch (500) of D2 705s with wood inlays.

But if you look at the full production (non batch/sprint) folders from each...
you see that Spyderco uses VG-10 and S30V and
BM uses 154CM, S30V and D2 for the majority of their lines.

I'm not saying one is better then the other. I like both companies.
But I am saying one isn't better then the other in matching
steel to steel.

And it's only recently that Kershaw has stepped it up a notch.
They still put out 440A, 420HC, and AUS-8 knives that
make up the majority. So if you compare Kershaw's
average steel to BM or Spyderco's it's still behind in that category...but
may be catching up fast.

 

[mmmotorcycle]

When have they ever tried using a steel that nobody had ever heard of, like Spyderco with VG-10, H-1, and ZDP189 and in many ways even with ATS-55.

Benchmade used H-1 for a long while in their river rescue knife. In fact it was discontinued in that steel about a year before Spyderco used it in their Salt Series. Foretunately Spyderco put it to better use and ultimately still stands as a favorite production knife company.

 

[Steven Andrews]

14205
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