Is Benchmade losing their edge?

HoB said:
Hell, I think it is a whole lot better than the automotive industry. They have been using the same damn engine concept for 120 years! Nothing, absolutely nothing has happened to the basic concept of the Otto-engine. Clearly there has been no innovation AT ALL if you compare an Otto-engine from a Ford model T with the V-10 in the current Viper. They both use pistons and cranks....even run on the same number of cycles! The only real innovation in automotion is the Wankel (Rotary-) and Diesel engines and those are over 80 years old! You can call me, when they invent cars that don't use tires anymore and run on an engine that uses sewage.

What a limit view of progress and innovation :rolleyes:.
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Sorry this is completely off topic but I couldnt let this slip!

In the last couple of years we have seen massive innovation in engine technology

The common rail diesel engine - diesel engines have been developed from a point where they were only suitable for truck applications to a point where the latest generation are more powerful and faster than the equivalent petrol engine. I have a sports car with a diesel engine! I couldnt even have imagined the concept of that 5 years ago. Not only that but it performs as well as the equivalent petrol engine and i get 40 mpg from it. We've seen catalystic converters, fuel injection, variable turbo chargers with transient overboost...

A lot of the technical innovation in knives has stagnated in the past few years, most of the new stuff is just asthetically different, but fundamentally the same.

Maybe knives have reached an evolutionary pinnacle from a technical point of view?
 
10 years ago all Benchmades were: Made in the USA.
Had ATS-34 steel blades.
Benchmade has: Knives from around the world.
Several custom designers.
Four classes of knives to choose from.
Several types of steel to choose from.
Many different locking mechanisms.

Keep following Benchmade and you'll see the evolution of knife making.

Spyderco is a fine company but 90% of their knives are plastic handle lockbacks. Boring.:yawn:
 
i think benchmade spread themselves out too quck because alot of their new products arent benchmade they are also HK, NRA, and Bradley products. Not to mention their red, black, gold and blue classes. so when you add all that up and take into account that when i look (im guessing some of you do this too) for a new benchmade i generally only look at the "blue" class" and i miss alot.

That being said i think spyderco is currently and for probably most of the last decade more willing to take chances on stuff. for better or worse i dont think we will ever see a wild design like a shabaria or a ayoob from benchmade like we do from spyderco. The upside though is that benchmade designs tend to stick around longer because they are more "proven" designs.
 
Just my 2 cents worth, and you can give me change if I have it coming, but I think that in the case of Spyderco what gets confused with inovation is an abundance of variations on a theme.

To my eye the majority of their knives appear to be quite similar just different sizes and colors and materials. I do believe that it can be overdone and they have done it.

Flame away!
 
Okay, I will admit that maybe "innovation" wasn't the proper term to use (I never thought this thread would turn into a debate on the definition of "innovation"). The whole point is that Bench made use to be a leader when it came to new designs (for instance, the Ares was a stand out when it was released, as were the Stryker, AFCK, Osborne, Gravitator...well, you get the point), they put out products that were excellent quality, great 'using' designs, and were very aesthetically pleasing. As I stated right off the bat, I STILL LIKE BENCHMADE KNIVES. I just want to see 'more'.
 
Ok J.Davey I agree with you 100%. I want more too! :-)

Here's a question I can't answer... does BM have an annual
release schedule or do they just release whenever?
 
bladefixation2 said:
Sorry this is completely off topic but I couldnt let this slip!
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No problem, but you do realize that I was being sarcastic, right?

I would have to disagree with you one the knife industry being stagnant, though. Besides the obvious new steel choices I think there has been plenty of improvement in ergonomics, locks and basic understanding of tayloring the overall design of knives to a certain purpose is slowly advancing. With that I mean more sophisticated heatreats, more sensible steel selection, better tailoring of geometry to a given purpose etc. The grinds become more and more complex due to better CNC grinders and probably ultimately MIM. I admit, some advances are slow, but I think many companies are moving in the right direction. I think that two years is not long enough a time frame to truely judge the progress. If you look back 10 years, the progress that has been made becomes pretty obvious, and I think the same you will see in 10 years from now. Progress is never linear. There will never be progress if you don't allow for a few steps even in the wrong direction. In the end the experience you gain from the dead ends is just as important if not more important, as the experiences gained from the successes.
 
Not perhaps so much because of innovation is limited selection of knives in a blade range I can carry. Let me explain. I work in a jurisdiction (DC) that has a 3 inch limit on blade length and a 2.5 inch length (de facto) on federal buildings, where I work. When it comes to small knives, Benchmade is way behind and nowhere close to Spyderco. The Benchmite may be a fine knife, but isn't suited for left-handers. Most of the truly great new small models are coming from Spyderco, not Benchmade. I just bought a G-10 Robin from New Graham. If BM had something comparable, I'd have looked at it.

Verb
 
Your working in DC sounds like a personal problem. Be glad that since Spyderco makes several models of sheeple knives so you have a choice at all.

If neutered knives for politically repressive jurisdictions were a lucrative niche to compete in, more high end companies would be making offerings for it.
 
I almost bought a minigrip at when I purchased my current EDC. I looked at the Minigrip and the Kershaw MiniCyclone and bought the MiniCyclone. It's almost laughable that Benchmade figures that they can charge the same price for a MiniGrip as Kershaw does for the MiniCyclone. Granted the Benchmade had better steel and a Axis lock, but that's it. Handles looked extremely cheap and the whole knife felt cheap in the hand. The Kershaw is built like a tank in comparison and it's easy to see how they will surpass Benchmade in sales very soon, couple that with super costumer service and Kershaw has as winning combo.
 
Always been a Kershaw and Buck knife fan. Never could afford "higher" end knives as a teenager and young adult. Used to buy my Kershaws at their Wilsonville warehouse sale every December to save a few bucks. All my Kershaws continue to function well, take an edge and look good after many years of use. Recently bought a Lone Wolf D2 ranger auto and love it to death - scary sharp and very fast. After the Lone Wolf I bought the H&K benchmade 34 auto with tanto blade - what a disappointment. The Benchmade came so dull it wouldn't cut paper. The Benchmade serrations look like they had been worn down on concrete. This was a new knife. Amazing how first impressions will damage perceived reputation. Always wanted a Benchmade but severely disappointed. For the money I will be looking for the Zero Tolerance knives to improve my EDC collection.
 
I think that we've been looking at Benchmade's for so long they've just lost their "newness". I still like their designs and, for me, they don;t have to come up with a neon-lighted super-geometric knife every year. They still build GREAT knives and are a leader in the industry.

Think of America. Some people think everyone hates us. We're not "leaders" anymore. We're spoiled (well, that's probably true). etc etc. Well I don;t think that's true. We've been a leader in the world so long that ENVY has reached a peak. Benchmade might be suffering a little of the same fate.

I do agree, however, that their "red DNA' line is a slap in the face to Americans. Since when does a classy company feel they have to "complete" with knife manufacturers who've always manufactured inferior knives?
 
Boats said:
Your working in DC sounds like a personal problem. Be glad that since Spyderco makes several models of sheeple knives so you have a choice at all.

If neutered knives for politically repressive jurisdictions were a lucrative niche to compete in, more high end companies would be making offerings for it.
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And Benchmade tends to have fewer offering in that range than Spyderco. If not for the blade length limit, I think I prefer a smaller knife for edc anyway, lighter, easier to carry. As for your supposition about smaller knives and high end companies, it doesn't hold water does it? Chris Reeve (small sebbie, mnadi, umfaan), William Henry (kestral, monarch), Bladetech (mouse), SOG (twich, blink, flash, sculptura), Al Mar (hawk, osprey), and the popularity of the Caly Jr. :D And customs (Wilkenson Leafstorm). Agree to disagree.

I do appreciate the sub 3 inch BM I own (525 and 705). It's just when it gets to 2 1/2 or less, their choices are much more limited. Most of the main production companies, Kershaw, SOG, Spyderco, etc offer a much wider variety Benchmade does, who with their Red Line is becoming less high end all the time.
 
I like Benchmade. They're one of the few knife manufacturers whose knives I consistently... Well, like.

Of course, I wasn't in the market to buy many knives until recently, so I really can't express an opinion on their or any knife company's rise or fall.

However, as far as comparing Brand X to Brand Y. Consumers will chose one or both based on their personal preferences. I can somewhat understand the need to boycott one company or the other, but cannot understand the need to make other people make the same knife choices you have.
 
Tanto5 said:
All i can say is 806 AFCK with carbon fiber handles, an S30V blade and a round hole opener.
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Well, that is pretty much exactly what I was thinking of when I think that they are loosing their edge: $325, are you kidding me? The CF Ares sprintrun (from the looks the same type of CF) I've bought for around $140, if I remember correctly, only a few years ago. I am supposed to pay almost a $200 premium for an S30V blade or is the $200 premium tied up in the hole :rolleyes:? Sure prices have gone up in the last few years, I wouldn't complain if it was $200 street price. But maybe this is an exclusive run and BM isn't controlling the price?

Never mind, didn't scroll down. So it is an exclusive run for a store and not a sprint run. Explains the price, but still no initiative from BM.....
 
Benchmade delivers spot-on what I want from a knife company. They give me great functional designs that use great material and great workmanship, most in the USA. I love the fact that if you buy a blue or black class knife, you are getting excellent blade steel. They continue to use the axis-lock, why change a great innovation. Sure, they started putting opening holes on the knives, don't give one more complaint that Benchmade stole technology: IT'S A HOLE! I like the quality sturdy pieces they put out. I'd rather buy a proven design than a new knife that doesn't have all the kinks worked out. I just got my first 710: this excellent knife and many more like it is the reason in black and white that I am satisfied with Benchmade. Plus, if you don't have the money, Benchmades red class is IMHO the best value in knives. The Vex is an amazing folder, and the DPT Rant is an awsome fixed blade, both for under $40!
 
bladefixation2 said:
In the last couple of years we have seen massive innovation in engine technology
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That is NOT true. ECUs are basically only innovation and they were here since 80s...
Honda Insight and other hybrids may be considered as an attempt. That's all.

bladefixation2 said:
The common rail diesel engine - diesel engines have been developed from a point where they were only suitable for truck applications to a point where the latest generation are more powerful and faster than the equivalent petrol engine.
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Basic difference is that diesel engine can burn the fuel more efficiently - BUT it applies to pretty limited (and quite low) RPM range which is not very suitable for the usage in personal vehicle. You can check how user-friendly a diesel engine is in any car with naturally aspirated diesel engine. In try to make diesels usable, producers put turbo chargers on them.

What you are trying to compare is turbocharged diesel engine vs naturally aspirated petrol engine...

(not to mention the diesel is much worse environmental and health danger than petrol engine)

bladefixation2 said:
I have a sports car with a diesel engine! I couldnt even have imagined the concept of that 5 years ago. Not only that but it performs as well as the equivalent petrol engine and i get 40 mpg from it. We've seen catalystic converters, fuel injection, variable turbo chargers with transient overboost...
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I doubt you are talking about Le Mans Audi or Peugeot, then I have to ask what do you have - as these are only diesel powered "sports cars" I know of (not to mention even standard sedans with reasonable diesel engine gets only about 25mpg...)
 
My opinion is Benchmade thought they could sell more knives by borrowing Spyderco design elements. Maybe they're trying to increase market share, maybe they just trying to hang on, but regardless I'm disappointed they could not think up very much new on their own. It would be especially sad if benchmade turned into a copy cat company likw joy enterprises, frost, etc.
 
michaelmcgo said: Benchmade delivers spot-on what I want from a knife company. They give me great functional designs that use great material and great workmanship, most in the USA.
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I could not agree more and believe that that statement best defines the difference between the two companies being discussed. In my mind Spyderco produces many good knives but for my taste the majority of them are just too cute and gimicky. Give me a 710 or Mini-Grip any day.
 
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