Is bugging out a romantic fantasy?

Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
4,940
Since we all know that the average person does not carry a knife or flashlight much less a FAK, what do you think they are going to grab on there way out the door after the radio or TV broadcasts the end of the world warning. I mean under the best case circumstances people traveling can get angry and aggressive. That is when they know they will have a home to return to.

So there you are in your SUV with the wife, kids and family dog with your BOBs and provisions. You end up stuck in traffic because everyone else had the same idea. It could be an accident, toll both backup or whatever. At first people were standing on their bumpers looking to see what was going on. After about 30 minutes of listening to the news reports people begin to get anxious and scared. They start walking around looking into vehicles to see who has what. You, your family and what you have has turned you into items on a rack for primal selction. What if as you are sitting there you blow a hose or get a flat? What if for some reason you have to dismount? Is your gear subloaded so you can whittle it down and take what you need?


Your thoughts?
 
Elaborate if you would for the good of the class

I can do all kinds of stuff that includes risk when I am alone. After seeing some of the pics here with families I am interested to here from those formites.
 
Elaborate if you would for the good of the class

I can do all kinds of stuff that includes risk when you are alone. After seeing some of the pics here with families I am interested to here from those formites.

I posted my current B.O.B./SHTF on another post, but I think it is sufficient for me, the single, in decent shape male, and gf to get the hell outta dodge. Plus, I go 4x4, if the roads are backed up, guess who's not on them. 4-wheel low and hittin the unbeaten path. As far as I manage to get away from a developed area where animals aren't scared to be, food is no issue...
 
If I was home there would be no need to bug out. I live out.

If I was at work, it is about 25 miles but I could probably walk home in about 10 to 12 hours.
 
It's not a fantasy if you plan properly.

Have a plan that takes into account a "Bug out place" in at LEAST the four cardinal directions. That way, you always have options to go against the flow of the masses. Make sure the ones you want with you all know the plan, and pre-arranged meeting places

Know how to do emergency improvised repairs on your car -- how to fix flats. Have a car emergency repair kit - like a survival kit but more extensive. Buy this video to learn more about car survival:
http://www.survival.com/volume-12.htm

There's WAY more but I'm busy figuring out dates for a certain mercop to come to CT to do a seminar. :) George, check your email. I'll call back when I get into town, which should be soon. Bad reception day in the boonies.

I'll add more here when I get a chance. The bottom line is, if you do nothing, your chances are way more slim than doing something.
 
Bugging out to live indefnitely in the hills is probably far fetched. But I wouldn't want to stay in the city. Heading to a friend or relatives who live in more rural areas would be my bug out plan.
 
Generally speaking, bugging out is a fantasy. In most scenarios you're going to be better off staying put. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared to bug out - it can and does happen.

Bugging out by SUV is a bad idea - Hurricane Rita is a prime example:


You should have alternative means of transport - foot, bicycle, kayak, moped, golf-cart - and a plan to use it. Everyone's got a car and the highway system wasn't designed for everyone to decide to go for a drive all at the same time. If you live in a major urban area and your sole bug-out plan is mechanized transport, you're just going to find yourself stuck in a very long parking-lot.

I like the term "subload" - I usually think of it as "modular". My BOB is definitely subloaded - packs inside packs ready to be dumped to pick up speed when necessary. The Oregon trail was littered with a lot of really nice furniture - the Bug-Out trail will probably be littered with a lot of really nice stuff too.
 
If I sound short today it's because I'm multi-tasking like crazy! One of your plans might be "staying mobile, " being able to live out of or beside your vehicle anywhere.

The other thing is knowing when to leave. The prepared person sees trouble way ahead of others.

That pic of Hurricane Rita traffic was all the "last-minuters" who didn't believe anything bad could happen until it was way late in the game.
 
Most of my bugging is "in" not "out..." I prefer to think in terms of Get Home Bags than Bug Out Bags.

Partly because I live in Vancouver BC, and there are two roads out of town, and two million people here. God, I really don't want to have to try to get out!

This is the problem with being sandwiched between spectacular mountains and gorgeous ocean beaches...you can take the route North through the mountains, or East into the mountains, but either way, it isn't a road designed to hold all that many people at a time!

My goal in the event of disaster would just be to get myself and, ideally, my truck, home, wait out the first chaotic days amongst my supplies, then, on about day five or so, pack up the truck and head up to the family properties in the interior, which are pretty well stocked, and wait for a good while for the city to calm down.
 
What if as you are sitting there you blow a hose or get a flat?
Your thoughts?

I'm not that kind of guy, M. ;)

Seriously, very good question. I'll mention a couple of related considerations that have occurred to me, and what I've done about them.

For starters, I've realized that our family cars are natural and great places for survival equipment, because our cars are ALMOST ALWAYS WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED YARDS OF WHERE MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE. For years, I kept my survival gear in a closet at home. Not too useful when I'm at work miles away from home--or in law school 2,000 miles away from home. Now, I keep layered and redundant survival gear all over.

Experience has taught me three unique problems about cars.
1. They are easily seen-into, and broken-into, even if locked.
2. They need to be affirmatively locked each time one exits, or the contents are there for a thief's taking.
3. They are subject to SPECTACULAR variation in temperature, which needs to be taken into account in stocking survival gear in cars.

Here is what I do in response to each of these problems.

Problem 1: Visibility.

Anything I leave in a car within sight, I try to make look as unattractive as possible. I approach this from what I imagine would be a thief's mindset. That means that I even remove bags that I know to be diaper bags, containing nothing of stealable value, from the car, to avoid having someone smash my window. Even if they only get half a dozen Pampers and a box of baby-wipes, I've still got to vacuum broken glass out of the car's rug. Also, I think what would be thief-tempting will vary somewhat from place to place. A box of food might be relatively safe in front of my house in the suburbs, but it might be a real temptation out in a remote trailhead.

For cars with large amounts of concealed space--like a trunk--visibility is less of an issue. For cars where there is not a lot of concealed space, I deliberately scatter survival gear throughout the space that IS there--under seats, in the glove compartment, etc. I try to keep the thief-interesting stuff under the seats, but an old pair of boots, etc. might go somewhere more visible. Not only does this let me keep the more-valuable stuff out of sight, but it also makes it harder for a thief to grab my entire survival kit in a 60-second smash-and-grab. Downside: if I have to abandon the vehicle, I will also have to pick around and collect stuff. Good idea to keep a list of what you have and where it is, maybe on an unusually-colored piece of paper, in the glove compartment. That way, when your wife has your car and needs the tire inflator and you're not around, she can pull out your inventory list (keep it current, guys!) and go right to where it is. (This is also relevant in that your survival stuff will, as a practical matter, get used twenty times for non-emergency purposes for every one time it's used for emergency stuff. The Leatherman will get used to cut apples far more often than to skin that deer you hope to bag with your homemade bow after the SHTF, etc.) Another good idea is to keep some kind of carryable bag somewhere, so you can have something to put your scattered gear into for a little trek. (If you have, say, a cheap daypack for this purpose, you can keep it under the spare tire, or under a seat, and just load it up and expand it to non-concealable size if and when the need truly arises.)

Problem 2: Break-in-ability of cars, and problem if car is left unlocked

If someone wants into your car, he can usually get there. Cars themselves are desirable objects of theft, and even if your bugout bag doesn't draw a crook, your car itself might. Wives and kids have a way of leaving doors unlocked. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Thus, anything you keep in the car is potentially more subject to theft than what you keep in your bombproof vault at home. Answer: I tend to keep my more-replaceable, second-string survival gear in the car. A car is also a good place for stuff that is a little heavier than what you'd carry on your person.

Problem 3: Vast temperature variation

I live in the Sonoran Desert. Every summer, guaranteed, the temperature will rise to 114 degrees, and usually more, on at least one day. That is the AIR temperature. Measured in the SHADE. At an altitude about 6 FEET OFF THE GROUND. In my town, that temperature has been recorded as high as 122 degrees Fahrenheit--or 50 degrees Centigrade. Temperatures inside a closed car, where the glass traps in the heat, can get MUCH HOTTER THAN THAT. I think a low-oven temperature of 150 degrees is not at all unrealistic.

In the winter, it will predictably freeze. Every year.

This means that whatever I keep in my car is going to have to hold up to those extremes (unless I'm going to count on regular rotation of stuff--something I don't like to build in a need for, since that's the kind of thing one easily tends to forget. If I'm planning for things like this, I try very carefully to avoid setting things up to require predictable fixes, to the extent possible.) Things like wax candles, I just don't bother with. Food that can dry out, I count on doing so. (Even plastic pouches of jerky have their contents become rock-hard in a year or so of storage in my trunk.) Liquids may expand--so I'm really careful with what kind of stove fuel, etc., I keep. Anything leather needs to be saturated with leather-treatment material of some kind, or it will literally crack and begin crumbling into dust in a period of months. That means spare boots, knife sheaths, leather knife handles, etc. Sometimes I've opted for dive knives and the like for car survival kits, as anything waterproof is unlikely to dry out in the heat.

On a related note, I try to avoid leaving clear canteens full of water where the sun can shine through and be focused on a small area, causing a fire. (Cody Lundin is to be thanked for this warning). Consider covering any clear canteens with a belt-pouch; that'll also let you carry them more easily, if you need to leave your car. Also, everything in a car will vibrate. Keep this in mind if your car kit contains strike-anywhere matches. Also, the car's mobility means that it will end up in places other than where you usually keep it. Good idea to weigh the idea of storing your legal-in-your-state gun in a car that your wife will be driving on a visit to her relatives in an adjacent state where that gun is illegal. If your kit will contain anything that will be illegal to take anywhere, make sure you are very aware of which items need to be removed for which trips, and keep those items where they can easily be removed. For instance, I often go to court. ANY knife is illegal to carry there, so I leave all knives OUT of my wallet survival kit, which goes with me wherever I do, and which would probably get me stopped at the court security checkpoints whenever I forgot about it, if I carried a knife in my wallet. Instead, I keep my knives in kits I won't be carrying when I go to court; anything I am carrying, I will just remove before heading off for the courthouse.

Returning to Mercop's scenario, I have deliberately rethought my planned bugout routes to exclude some otherwise-attractive routes that would leave me in a potential traffic jam with no way out--I've favored routes that go through country with lots of driveable terrain to either side of the road, and which veer away from the obvious out-of-town freeways. As for anyone looking into our stopped car for stuff to take, most of the survival gear is, as stated above, stored out of sight as a matter of course. Any additional stuff can be covered with blankets, newspapers, and/or (I love this) trash. A carful of kids can very plausibly generate a huge pile of hamburger wrappers, paper cups, napkins, etc., and it doesn't take much of this on top of a newspaper to make it look like your car is just brim-full of junk, even if you've got a week's supply of food and a generator underneath it.

Those are just my thoughts. Thanks, Mercop, for suggesting the ideas.

Anyone else?
 
I think it is a fantasy of the survival crowd. First off, bug out to where? If they had a snowballs chance in hell of getting there, I think the country folk who live in the sticks are not going to be really gung ho about 2.something million now homeless refugees taking up residense in their back 40.

But its not even going to happen unless you make plans to not even use a car/truck/motorhome. Our niece was cought up in that attempted evacuation of Houston back the when it was just after the Katrina thing. In six hours she managed to make 8 miles because all the roads out of the city turned into long parking lots. It was absolute chaos. In the end, low on gas because all the gas stations were either closed or out of gas themselves, she turned around and drove back to her house where she and her 6 year old son made a game out of creating a fort in the attic, with canned goods, bottles of water, first aid supplies and her .22 target rifle and ammo.

And that was just part of the population of Houston, alot decieded to stay home and ride it out. I can't even imagine if the ENTIRE population of the city was trying to get out of Dodge because of a dirty bomb or biological threat. As it was, she just managed to get back, being able to ziz zag and take advantage of the fact her little Ford Focus did not need much room to squeeze by on the median or sometimes sidewalk.

Around here, just getting out of Washington D.C. in a snow storm can take 6 to 7 hours for a normal 1 to 2 hour trip. Good luck if the population tried to get out of D.C. to the Maryland/Virginia countryside. It's gonna get real ugly real fast. I think unless you already live out in the sticks, you're going to stay right where you are unless you walk or have a light BOB that will fit on a mountain bike or trail/dual purpase motorcycle. Forget the macho romantic idea of your big 4X4 loaded with all your firearms and gear. It's not going to make past the next highway interchange unless you start before an emergency. And if you have the forsight to see the near future, give me a call with the next winning Irish sweepstakes number.:D

All this not to mention the martial law and authorities going nuts with thier own power trip. Expect checkpoints and local barney fifes sizing guns like in New Orleans. Keep em out of sight and travel by un conventional means at night.
 
That pic of Hurricane Rita traffic was all the "last-minuters" who didn't believe anything bad could happen until it was way late in the game.

That's a good point Brian - but no one saw anything coming at 4pm August 13th, 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_North_America_blackout

800px-2003_New_York_City_blackout.jpg


That experience is why I now carry a radio with me every day! :D
 
LOL, AK! Yeap. The thing is, there's no certainty in any situation. You can only manage probabilities!
 
I live in a small town in Maine. I'm already bugged out. Of course we have to be ready for an ice storm to cut the electricity. Other than that, I just wish I could keep what little money I have for retirement from turning into Monopoly money.

I did live in Los Angeles for many years. And I worked across town from my home. I rehearsed, mostly in my mind, many times what it would require to get home from work during/after SHTF. The closest I came was during the '92 riots. My wife and I were going to stay home and wait it out, but when we saw ashes in the pool of our apartment building, we bugged out to friends' house in the SF valley. We sped out of the city on the surface streets as the curfew was taking effect and columns of smoke rose around us. My wife drove and I comforted our freaked out cat while cradling my Ithaca pump under a jacket on my lap.

Another time in the same apartment building, the power went out while I was at work. My wife went to find the manager, and encountered others in the stairwell carrying strips of burning paper to light their way. These are people who live in earthquake country and didn't have a flashlight, much less water, a transistor radio, and some canned food.

Soon after we moved to a little bungalow tucked into a secluded hillside on a winding cul-de-sac. I felt much safer there.

Ultimately, staying sequestered at home with your supplies and your loved ones is better than bugging out, if at all possible.
 
I'm liking this thread because there's much debate about what to do. Good discussion!
 
I don't live in a big city and pass through them as fast as possible. The main point is to control the situation as much as possible. Plan b,c,d, etc.
 
This is exactly why I usually have at least one dual sport motorcycle. My friend Donovan and I have always had what we refferred to as "The doomsday bike". The one I just sold was an XT225 with a rack system that accomidated a tail box with extra fuel cell mounted to it with a fuel pump system I made for it so it would pump all of the fuel to the forawrd tank with the flick of a switch, a side box on each side, complete tool setup to repair the bike on the go mounted in front of the motor, all sorts of stuff. The new WR250R will be set up much the same as soon as it gets here. I had a few guys approach me and Donovan on XR650L's and KLX650's on fireroads asking why we prefferred the smaller bikes. I said, "ride your bike up that hill over there." The guy looked and said, "This isn't a trials bike." I said, "exactly." and both of us went up into the woods up that hill and left those guys there. I'm sure they figured it out. The wife can ride just as good on a dirtbike and she'll have her own too. When the kids come along, I'll have to figure something else out, but I'm sure it won't be far away from the same plan. The thing is, we won't start out on the highway, so none of those people will see us and try to take our transportation when theirs gets stuck with everyone elses.
 
Back
Top