Is Busse the new Randall?

[Shotgun]

Yes, I used them.
I found the factory edge to be not nearly what was advertised.
A simple tin can dented the edge on the vaunted Steel Heart's convex edge which was purported to be practically indestructible.
Totally not impressed. I wouldn't buy another one. Certainly not for what they are costing now.
The fuss never came alive for me.

I had the same thing happen to my swamp rat. I don't get the fuss either.

 

[Zuluninja]

I'd probably use it to open letters, but who knows? maybe I would use it for what it was intended. Just saying it's a purty blade and surely costs more than a lot of my knives combined.

As for cultural impact, history, etc who knows? only time will tell. Busse is getting plenty of exposure with the walking dead.

As for historical performance and value... I guess the USMC Ka-Bar is hard to beat at around $50...

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I had an original Steel Heart, and a Badger Attack.
They were less than $300 each.
I thought they were nice, but I sold them both a long time ago. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I had the same thing happen to my swamp rat. I don't get the fuss either.

Honestly, the massive toughness strikes me as being more of a function of heat treatment than due to it being a proprietary steel. It seems that they have only medium edge retention, but massive springiness...much like a machete. I'd be interested in seeing how a Busse clone in a normal carbon steel (1075/85/95, L6, 5160, 52100, etc.) with a spring temper would stack up in a side-by-side comparison. Sort of a "Spyderco Mule Team" approach, if you will.

 

[Ankerson]

Honestly, the massive toughness strikes me as being more of a function of heat treatment than due to it being a proprietary steel. It seems that they have only medium edge retention, but massive springiness...much like a machete. I'd be interested in seeing how a Busse clone in a normal carbon steel (1075/85/95, L6, 5160, 52100, etc.) with a spring temper would stack up in a side-by-side comparison. Sort of a "Spyderco Mule Team" approach, if you will.

The closest you would get to INFI would be A8 chipper steel, but then no production blades are made in that either..... And it's also expensive.

Only Busse really knows what INFI really is, exact alloy content percentages.

NONE of those steels you listed would have near the stain resistance of INFI.

INFI is not a basic steel...

 

[HuntBomb]

Busse is a completely different beast.
I've handled dozens of Randalls, but I don't see them giving me the same amount of pleasure as my NMFBM when wacking wood. I can't stand not using my knives, and although Randalls have proven capable for decades, they are more of a "hang on the shelf" collectors item. (IMO
There is one Randall that is much larger than the others, but I've never had the pleasure of handling one...what's it called? and how would it compare to a larger Busse?

 

[Ankerson]

Busse is a completely different beast.
I've handled dozens of Randalls, but I don't see them giving me the same amount of pleasure as my NMFBM when wacking wood. I can't stand not using my knives, and although Randalls have proven capable for decades, they are more of a "hang on the shelf" collectors item. (IMO
There is one Randall that is much larger than the others, but I've never had the pleasure of handling one...what's it called? and how would it compare to a larger Busse?

There is really nothing wrong with Randalls at all IMO, I have had a few in my hands over the years and they are nice no doubt, but they have become more of a collector piece given the very long wait time to get one from them although I am sure some are in use as they have been for a very long time. They have stood the test of time and that is saying a lot taking into consideration how long they have been around.

BUSSE is still fairly new to the game even though they have been around for awhile now so we will have to see what happens in the 20 years or longer to see what happens.

They very well could be the next Randall, but only time will tell to see how that goes, anything else is just a guess at this point and time.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The closest you would get to INFI would be A8 chipper steel, but then no production blades are made in that either..... And it's also expensive.

Only Busse really knows what INFI really is, exact alloy content percentages.

NONE of those steels you listed would have near the stain resistance of INFI.

INFI is not a basic steel...

Never said it was a basic steel.

I'd just be interested in seeing the comparable performance in terms of edge retention and how much abuse they would handle. My comment isn't intended to bash on Busse at all--rather that my suspicion (which may be incorrect) is that those particular performance qualities would be dictated the greatest by the heat treatment. Trading edge retention for durability isn't a sorcerer's trick, after all, so it just makes me wonder if a similarly "indestructible" blade could be made using such an approach. After all, taking a lower-RC approach to fixed blades isn't something that's fully mainstream in the knife world, but machetes are incredibly tough blades made from simple steels by using just such a method, so it would be interesting to see how a thicker blade with the same heat treatment stacked up. :thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

Never said it was a basic steel.

I'd just be interested in seeing the comparable performance in terms of edge retention and how much abuse they would handle. My comment isn't intended to bash on Busse at all--rather that my suspicion (which may be incorrect) is that those particular performance qualities would be dictated the greatest by the heat treatment. Trading edge retention for durability isn't a sorcerer's trick, after all, so it just makes me wonder if a similarly "indestructible" blade could be made using such an approach. After all, taking a lower-RC approach to fixed blades isn't something that's fully mainstream in the knife world, but machetes are incredibly tough blades made from simple steels by using just such a method, so it would be interesting to see how a thicker blade with the same heat treatment stacked up. :thumbup:

A lot would depend on what the Busse model was and that would effect the hardness and HT, tempering etc, they aren't all the same.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Of course--the whole point would be to try to make as close to an apples to apples comparison as possible within the parameters of the experiment. This is all just something I'd be interested in seeing though. Doesn't mean it'll ever happen.

 

[Ankerson]

Of course--the whole point would be to try to make as close to an apples to apples comparison as possible within the parameters of the experiment. This is all just something I'd be interested in seeing though. Doesn't mean it'll ever happen.

I doubt it ever would be either because the comparison knife would be to be a custom made to the same blade specs as the Busse.

That said INFI does hold an edge very well, it likes a coarser edge.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

My--limited--experience has put it at moderate-good for edge retention, but you're the expert here so I defer to your much greater experience.

 

[midnight flyer]

Busse is a completely different beast.
I've handled dozens of Randalls, but I don't see them giving me the same amount of pleasure as my NMFBM when wacking wood. I can't stand not using my knives, and although Randalls have proven capable for decades, they are more of a "hang on the shelf" collectors item. (IMO

Back in the day when Randall was making his bones, knife guys had different needs. He did a lot with the men that wanted reliable hunting knives, working knives, and of course for the military. I had two different friends that had fathers that carried Randalls in combat in Vietnam. They loved them, and they looked like they had been used for everything you could imagine. One still has his Dad's, but won't use it as he is afraid he will lose it somewhere. The men that carried Randalls would not have carried anything else.

Randall didn't know that the upcoming market would require knives that chop and hack. One of the requirements of the backyard survivalist these days is to be a good chopper. Chopping up firewood and zombies, batoning, clearing firing lanes (when you could shoot down the cow path), and other skills that weren't required just 20 years ago are now reflected in today's military/tactical/survival knives as a must. I have been "rough" camping, hiking and hunting for almost 50 years. Not out of a car, but with all equipment on my back for a few days trek.

I never knew until I joined this forum how important batoning was to my enjoyment and maybe actual survival, nor did I know that there were so damn many 1/4" or better thick knives! I don't think Randall ever anticipated the need to split a 6" log on a regular basis nor thought of a sheath knife as a weed clearing device or even a brush chopper. Back in their heyday, they made knives as heavy duty, durable, cutting instruments. They just didn't know better. Hell, we didn't know better!

I have no doubt that a sharpened piece of bar stock with micarta screwed on as scales is much more durable than the old Randall knives of 40 years ago. I also have no doubt that INFI is better than many of the old Randall steels; time, science and technology will easily make that happen.

As far as being collectables, who knows? I think that Busse will have to have a lot of folks that step forth from the shadows with their own personal experiences of using them while guiding Alaskan hunts for 20 years, using them in the Amazon as their only knife, and of course testimony from the guys in the military that relied on them to survive while in combat before they will catch the provenance of Randall.

75 years of history might do it...

Still, not saying that Busses won't fetch more money from their collectors.

Robert

 

[Ankerson]

My--limited--experience has put it at moderate-good for edge retention, but you're the expert here so I defer to your much greater experience.

I am not saying it's like S90V or anything, but for the alloy content and typical hardness it was run in the knives that I tested it really did very well.

On the high end of respectable.

 

[OldPhysics]

Maybe. Check back in another 75 years and we'll see.

THIS would be my point.

I do like Busse knives. However, so far as I can see ... Randall is still the only Randall.

 

[sodak]

Yes, I used them.
I found the factory edge to be not nearly what was advertised.
A simple tin can dented the edge on the vaunted Steel Heart's convex edge which was purported to be practically indestructible.
Totally not impressed. I wouldn't buy another one. Certainly not for what they are costing now.
The fuss never came alive for me.

I had the same thing happen to my swamp rat. I don't get the fuss either.

When I bought my first Busse, over 10 years ago, it was a SH-E. The very first thing I did to test that edge was put a beer bottle cap on a 2x4 and chop it in half. I'm talking about a 1/5th power swing, if that. The factory half convex edge rippled and dented. That's when I learned not to believe the hype.

Some years later, I took a BM-E with a factory edge, and after sawing down a 30 ft. Aspen tree, I used the BM-E and a CS Trailmaster to buck and limb that tree. I'm talking a LOT of wood, although it was only Aspen. I wanted to see which would hold up better. They both did well, but the BM-E clearly better. Still shaved hair. It took maybe 3 or 4 swipes on ceramic rod to get back to hair screaming sharp.

So yes, Busse knives are very good, and that INFI is good steel also. But it's only steel, and certainly not indestructible. I like it because it really holds a great edge in appropriate tasks, and it's very, very easy to sharpen. I haven't held a Randall, so can't compare the two.

if we went by quantity...nobody beats Cold Steel.

Except Victorinox.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I am not saying it's like S90V or anything, but for the alloy content and typical hardness it was run in the knives that I tested it really did very well.

On the high end of respectable.

Ok--we're on the same page then. :thumbup:

 

[J.Manuel]

That's funny, because most of the Randalls I've seen have been in minty, safe-queen condition... I reckon any knife that costs over $500 is going to be handled with care by the owner with an eye to resale value.

Not necessarily - I use a $1200 custom made chopper in the woods -

 

[jdm61]

I have owned 4 Randalls over the years ( if you are a true knife knut, you must own at least one in your lifetime) and visited the shop a few times as it is close by. My problem with Randall today is that they leave their O1 knives quite soft and the only reason that I can see for that is because that is how Bo did it in 1938. With that said, I suspect if you asked 1,000 men if they had heard of Randall and Busse you would be surprised by the results. For years, Randall was about the only "custom" knife that many people had heard of. I had a table at the Gator Cutlery Club show again this year and there are normally quite a few Randall guys there. Randall collectors seem to be, as a rule, NOT knife collectors, but RANDALL knife collectors. Busse may be producing as many knives today as Randall or perhaps more because they have more than one line, but Randall still has a LOT more market penetration and is probably still the only knife company of its type that is known by people who don't really fancy knives.

 

[Psyop]

Here is a nice Randall that has been used by my father for about 30 years. It was about 100 bucks back then. Just putting it up so you dont think they are all safe queens. Id say Randall and Busse both have plenty of users and safe queens. He and I both own Randall and Busse knives. They are different animals.

 

[Mack]

Busse is a completely different beast.
I've handled dozens of Randalls, but I don't see them giving me the same amount of pleasure as my NMFBM when wacking wood. I can't stand not using my knives, and although Randalls have proven capable for decades, they are more of a "hang on the shelf" collectors item. (IMO
There is one Randall that is much larger than the others, but I've never had the pleasure of handling one...what's it called? and how would it compare to a larger Busse?

You're probably referring to the model 12s. Here are the 12-11s and 12-13.

I don't think you'd find a much better chopper than a 13 inch long, 1/4 inch thick Thorp Bowie although the 11 inch 3/8 thick Smithsonian may give it a run for it's money.
http://www.randallknives.com/catalog.php?action=viewcategory&catalogcategories_id=6