Is cpm 3v if heat treated right as tough as 5160

personally, I say no...but, depends on "tough" definition....

I think.nobody sells 3V springs for the simple reason that they will break.

3V is not made to take flexing, but more, to resist flexing. If of a length and cross section, hardness, and load to resist flexing, it is mighty tough stuff...but a leafspring or antennae aerial it is not.

I will trust it to not deform when spring steel would dent...but 3V will fail where spring steel would spring...folk seem to be getting by with 3V on shorter swords, but not longer swords...max toughness in notch tests is in the 58-59Rc range, but, you also end up with a softer more dentable blade.
 
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mtngunr said:
personally, I say no...but, depends on "tough" definition....

I think.nobody sells 3V springs for the simple reason that they will break.

3V is not made to take flexing, but more, to resist flexing. If of a length and cross section, hardness, and load to resist flexing, it is mighty tough stuff...but a leafspring or antennae aerial it is not.

I will trust it to not deform when spring steel would dent...but 3V will fail where spring steel would spring...folk seem to be getting by with 3V on shorter swords, but not longer swords...max toughness in notch tests is in the 58-59Rc range, but, you also end up with a softer more dentable blade.
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3v has been used in long swords for YEARS. Properly done 3v makes a better sword in my opinion for a variety of reasons. Swords aside, toughness is only one attribute and 5160 falls well short of 3v in corrosion resistance, strength and edge retention.

5160 will likely bend further, 3v will resist bending to the point you likely can't break it short of intentionally destroying it which literally any knife can be intentionally destroyed.




https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cpm-3v-ko-katana.1616591/
 
To answer the question posed in the original post:

No, I don't think 3v will deform the same way 5160 will. The goal of your knife shouldn't be to deform, it should be to resist deformation which 3v excels at. I don't want a bent knife or broken knife, chose 3v as done by Nathan Carothers, Ben Tendick or Dan Keffeler for top of the line pinnacle of performance 3v. It won't be cheap, but it won't be prohibitively expensive like a Bugatti.
 
shinyedges said:
3v has been used in long swords for YEARS. Properly done 3v makes a better sword in my opinion for a variety of reasons. Swords aside, toughness is only one attribute and 5160 falls well short of 3v in corrosion resistance, strength and edge retention.

5160 will likely bend further, 3v will resist bending to the point you likely can't break it short of intentionally destroying it which literally any knife can be intentionally destroyed.




https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cpm-3v-ko-katana.1616591/
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I MUST HAVE THAT SWORD !!!!!!
 
Thanks for setting the record straight on successful longer blade use.....otherwise, you confirmed pretty much what I said....and obviously an everyman's blade.

5160 is not optimal, anyhow, and an 80CrV2 blade would have far finer grain, be far more resilient, and work as well for most anybody, at most tough blade tasks, and cost a wee bit less than that 3V everyman sword. Which obviously is just like every other 3V use by knife makers as for expected toughness by your average shopper.

But, for those who must drive a Ferarri GTO-250 to the McDonalds drive thru when craving an order of fries, that sword is just right for them.
 
hhmoore said:
Chipping really isn't the issue when you're asking about toughness and talking about abuse.
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Yes and no.....the worry a maker will run it on the hard side, and whatever edge grind not be up to it, and getting a larger 3V which chips, is a realistic worry....stringent heat treat and temper controls are a must, and a point or two of Rc makes huge differences in both toughness and corrosion resistance...and unfortunately, from most makers, we get that range of variation in products, where they say 60Rc, but really they are getting 59-61 or even larger spread.

Of course, the obvious fix is to simply buy a large blade from a guy who charges a couple of grand or more, just like EVERYbody does, right? Then, it for sure is tougher than cheap 5160.
 
shinyedges said:
To answer the question posed in the original post:

No, I don't think 3v will deform the same way 5160 will. The goal of your knife shouldn't be to deform, it should be to resist deformation which 3v excels at. I don't want a bent knife or broken knife, chose 3v as done by Nathan Carothers, Ben Tendick or Dan Keffeler for top of the line pinnacle of performance 3v. It won't be cheap, but it won't be prohibitively expensive like a Bugatti.
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Or , of course , Cold Steel ! :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Depends on how you define toughness. Do you mean overall "tough" steel, to include edge holding, difficulty grinding, etc? If so, 3V would be "tougher". Do you mean tougher as measured by various impact tests? If so, I'd say 5160 would be tougher. It's not something I've seen anyone test. It would be a good comparison for Larrin's toughness testing.
 
jeepin said:
I MUST HAVE THAT SWORD !!!!!!
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TheSwordintheStone.jpg
 
pandaatkins said:
Is cpm 3v if heat treated right as tough as 5160
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I think you're asking the wrong question. You want to compare these steels at the same hardness. 5160 is a spring steel that is sometimes used for car springs, and car springs are extremely tough. But they are hardened much softer than a knife steel. One manufacturer has its leaf springs at 28-44 HRc. Most knife steels will be in the high 50s to low 60s Rc.

Steels run soft are extremely tough (resistant to chipping and breaking). But in blades, they dent and roll easily. Not what you want. High hardness steels are very strong (resist denting and rolling and deformation), but they are not very tough. They chip more easily.

So you need a balance of toughness and strength. If you pick the hardness you need -- say 60 Rc -- and then compare 5160 and CPM 3V for toughness at that hardness, I suspect 3V will be tougher and make a better blade. It will also hold a better edge.

I had a hunter from a well-known maker. When I went to sharpen it, the steel felt gummy. Something was wrong. I did some light tip stabbing into wood and prying up chips, but the tip bent easily. Then I found I could easily bend the entire blade. At that point, with the blade ruined, I chopped through a nail to get some more information about the steel. The edge just melted around the steel. The nail didn't even get scratched. The maker said the blade got a bad heat treat, and quickly replaced it with a new knife that performed much, much better.

But that first blade was much tougher than the second. The second made a much better knife. It's important to balance hardness and toughness.
 
From this vid it looks like 3V will at least get you through some light work in the yard.
The steel yard ! ! !
What was that other alloy you mentioned ? Oh well doesn't matter.
 
That's a cool video, but really a parlor game. We don't know the hardness of the A36 steel. We don't know the edge width of the knife or the edge angle. And at more than a quarter inch thick, that blade should be able to handle a ton of abuse.

There is another custom maker who used to show his knives being driven point first into an anvil. That steel was S30V. I have one of those knives, and the heat treat has proven excellent. But promotional videos are not science.
 
Wowbagger said:
From this vid it looks like 3V will at least get you through some light work in the yard.
The steel yard ! ! !
What was that other alloy you mentioned ? Oh well doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Who says that knife made from 5160 with equal geometry couldn't handle the test just as well?
 
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