Is honesty second to sensitivity in knife making?

D

Dago Red

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I'm curious about something I've noticed here, a couple of times I've seen things so ugly, so marvelously horrid that I can't believe anybody actually wants them, and these were actually done that way on purpose. It's one thing when a guy is starting out and developing skills, I see those threads too and they often get honest feedback, and the guys are trying to improve. but it seems if they guy puts it up and says its "collectible" or "art" people just keep their mouths shut. I suppose for every item there is a person that will like it, but are we doing the person a disservice to not tell them? is it just considered too bad mannered to say something? Maybe it's one of those things where guys figure what's the point?

i don't know, sometimes I see something for sale for a stupid price that is uglier than rainbow cow crap and have a hard time resisting a WTF post. Maybe it is a public service almost? these guys are like the american idol contestants that go on there and make people's ears bleed and honestly seem surprised when they're told they're no good. Shouldn't somebody tell them early on so they don't waste their time?

Red
 
Assuming that you genuinely hate the product or think that it is overpriced, then you can do variations of three things. you can tell them that, in your opinion, it sucks, which would be honest but not kind or constructive. you can tell them that you love it, and then be nice but completely dishonest. the third option is the one that i endorse, and that is that if you love it, tell them. if it is alright, say what you would change as kindly as possible, assuming it is not an for sale ad. if you hate it, keep your mouth shut. don't be the guy who makes someone feel like an idiot becuase he or she can't please everyone. that is someone that everyone agrees with, but no one wants to be around. Source for knowledge: experience.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so its better to just keep your mouth shut. If you see an ugly, hairy chick on the street do you go up to her and say she's ugly as hell?
 
good question and good points. i have no good answers though...but i think politeness and political correctness in general reign over one speaking the truth, or their honest opinion most times. there are exceptions of course and sometimes they create a herd effect on many others.

then again, there is the "you got nothing good to say, then say nothing," and the "don't rain on someone's parade," ideologies. which i myself try to follow, but even now and then i say what i am really thinking and break those rules.

good topic for discussion, i look forward to others thoughts on the topic.
 
If the person isn't asking for advice and is not committing fraud, trying to rip people off or being a real danger, leave them alone. It is just your opinion after all and you shouldn't get involved with their sales threads or other posting.

A good knifemaker will continue to improve over his/her lifetime, a bad one won't last very long.
 
The For Sale section certainly isn't the place for critiquing a maker's work.

But there are frequent topics in General or elsewhere, "What do you think of this knife." There's honesty, there's blowing smoke, and there's being rude and insulting. The trick, it's all about the wording. A thoughtful person should be able to phrase an honest and constructive answer in such a way as to not discourage.
 
There are plenty of high priced, highly sought after knives that do nothing for me. I can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on some of these things. But the same guys who love wild grinds and the newest steels might not give $20 for carbon steel or natural handle materials (which is what's in my pocket). Some dig both. As a buddy of mine says "Whatever blows your skirt up".

Frank
 
CWL said:
If the person isn't asking for advice and is not committing fraud, trying to rip people off or being a real danger, leave them alone. It is just your opinion after all and you shouldn't get involved with their sales threads or other posting.

A good knifemaker will continue to improve over his/her lifetime, a bad one won't last very long.
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I agree. If they ask for feedback....say what you feel. If they don't like it (which happens a lot)....too bad. They shouldn't have asked.

If they don't ask....keep your mouth shut, I believe. Unless you know the maker is attempting to sell shoddy (not ugly...shoddy) merchandise. Let's say, for example, he was selling stuff that had not been heat-treated to unsuspecting customers.

In my opinion.
 
Posting anything critical in someone's for sale thread just does not make sense for obvious reasons. Do not do it unless you are 100% sure of a scam. Even then it is better to report the thread and let the mods handle it. We have rules against negativity in a for sale thread since a person pays for the right to sell here and the market can decide upon price and other aspects.

Some makers are quite open to constructive thoughts, but it is best to contact them behind the scenes if you are that inclined. This always would be the best route unless the maker is openly asking in a thread.

Bob W and CWL offer up excellent advise and if you are honestly attempting to help out a maker the right words will not be hard to find or use.
 
also to be considered is something called response bias. Most people here, being decent people, if they have nothing nice to say, say nothing and move on, so you may be getting a lot of posts from the people who actually do like it, and few from those who dont.
 
The word that I would use is "tact". One can be honest and direct without being hurtful. That is the most important thing, do your best to treat others the way you would want to be treated. By the same token, some people cannot take a hint, be it subtle or like a brick to the face. For the most part, it's not what you say but how you say it. You get further being nice to folks than being hostile.
 
The way I look at it is most of us posters here don't fit in the mainstream of general society(eccentric,to put it kindly)-and this place is kind of our sanctuary we would not want to take that away from none of our brethren,encourage if asked, after all we've all seen some of the earlier work of some the biggest names in the knife world and it wasn't so great,give them time they may come around some of the equipment their using may be pretty crude!
 
Ya gotta remember, what looks crappy to one person can look great to another. I've seen paintings that sold for over a million dollars, that look to me like a 6 year old kid did them...
Granted some things really don't warrant a big price, but the market will take care of that on its own. If a maker wants input, do it tactfully. Everyone that makes knives, had a first and I'm sure they weren't outstanding.

I learned a long time ago, not to be overly critical unless its something I know for sure that I can do better
 
I am a maker and am open to all "constructive" criticism. However, I would not like a comment such as, "that knife looks like crap". As stated before, its not what you say but how you say it.
 
I've put work up on BF and was told it was disgusting. I asked for opinions and while it hurt it made me review my design. If the person would have been more descriptive or answered my attempts to find out why then I could have understood where it could have been made better. More along the lines of "the knife isn't my style, but if I was buying it I'd change (insert answer).

After all if we all spoke without tempering our thoughts I would have told Bill Moran that his wire inlay makes his knives amateur. Just because I don't like the style doesn't mean the knife is crap, as neither I nor you are such definitive experts on knives that we know what is best for all. Besides, not all makers care about looks, after all performance is the basisof what makes a knife a knife. IMO
 
I posted this and then didn't come back for a long time. I can see what you're all saying, and agree, obviously since I haven't posted those WTF responses to the threads I've seen. My op was prompted by something for hundreds of dollars in the classifieds that obviously should have been melted down, and I thought how pissed I'd be if my wife for instance (she wouldn't, but I always dream she'll get me some expensive toy I really want) bought me something like that thinking it was truly collectible but not knowing anything about knives. I think though I just sometimes see things and want to know I'm not the the only one out there that is thinking how ugly it is. On another forum I'm a member of guys will often post pics of something they found out on the web so we can all have a good laugh about it, I don't think that would work here since somebody would get upset if they saw their own work in that section :)

This is not the same as constructive criticism, which I have seen many of you give each other here and I would think is appreciated. Sometimes guys don't really tell beginners honestly the shortcomings or problems in their work and I think that hurts them overall because it'll take them longer to figure out.

Red
 
As my mom says, "There's no accounting for taste." What you think is a turd, someone else might see as a diamond.
 
Guyon said:
As my mom says, "There's no accounting for taste." What you think is a turd, someone else might see as a diamond.
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Yep, there's a maker here who I won't mention that makes some of the ugliest crap I've ever seen but to others it's artistic and great. If it sells someone thinks it's cool. Best to go by the old saying that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.
 
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