Is it dirty to offer more $ to a seller if you know he has struck a deal with someone

1whobuys

1whobuys

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This just happened to me:

A guy I have been talking to about a knife that he had, knew that I had a deal on another knife that he had passed on.

After finding out I had a deal on it, he contacted the seller and offered more money, hence under cutting my deal.

Am I wrong to think I was snaked by the new buyer and the seller?
Here's the story:



"As alot of you know, I had a deal on the Busse Shark that came up a while back.
The "sellers" terms of that sale was $1000 bucks to be paid in 60 days or less.(he would put the knife in the sock drawer until shipped)

Part of that $1000 would be accepted in trade value for a Randall #1, a 14 and a LCC D/A.

I have traded for a 14 and an LCC and a value was placed on those two knifes The value was agreed to by me and the seller.
I was going to pay the balance in cash next week.

There is another member that has been posting here as of late, he also has a knife that I have been wanting. (An SHI)

This member knew that I had a deal on the Shark and for what amount.
(we have been emailing and talking on the phone)

This member contacted the owner of the Shark and offered more money for the it intentionally under cutting my deal.


This is a deal where a buyer knew that the knife was sold
(a knife that he had turned down)

And then started making offers to destroy the deal and buy the knife himself.

I think that is quit underhanded and dirty.
By both the seller and the new buyer that initiated the transaction.

Am I wrong here with my thinking?
Does a mans word not mean any thing any more?

If I were to set the terms of a sale with someone here and then later after you (the buyer) had tied up over $500.00 getting the knifes I wanted in trade.
Decided to sell it to some one else for more money.
Would I be wrong in doing that?

What about if I knew that you had a deal with a seller for X amount of money, and I started making higher offers to to him to buy the knife.
Is that also a shifty and slimey thing to do?

I'm just wondering if it is me that thinks honesty and integrety were thrown out the window by these two people.
Or did I miss some thing.

If I tell some one a price and give them a time frame in which to pay,
I will honor my terms, I'll stand by my price and won't sell it out from under them for a few more bucks.

My word, integrity, and honor mean more than that.
Thanks for your feed back. Chuck

I have saved all of the emails if any one has any questions.
 
Damn, I'm just getting sick of this whole friggin knife business, and dealing with people in general for that matter, and this thread just about tears it!

You are correct in thinking that both of these scumbags are wrong, and no, peoples word does not mean much anymore at all...it just gets worse & worse.

I've had more screwy deals here in the last 3 weeks than I have had before in the last 2 years, and I am about pissed.

Add to this the recent nonsense from quite a few people here posting in these forums and others, and it's just about too much. It's getting to be the norm, sadly enough.
People lying, cheating, whining, denigrating, belittling, and just overall disrespecting the people around them...

You need to post the names here, so people can make an informed decistion about dealing with either of these two, if you are absolutely sure that what you have described is in fact what occured.
 
...I've been pretty adament in stating that once a deal is struck, "A deal is a deal"...

Which means to me, if I later have buyer's remorse...tough.

If I find out that I'm short on cash, tough.

If I find out later that I paid too much, tough.

"A deal is a deal"...and a man's word is 'ALL' he's got.

I told a fellow forumite that I would buy a certain knife from him if he sent it, and I liked it. He offered a 3 day return inspection period.

He sent it, and I like the knife, but I don't have the money...that's tough.

My word is my word, and now I'm scrambling to scrape up the cash.

Ergo, I have knives listed for sale, that I wouldn't normally have even considered selling...that too is tough.

I think you got screwed in a very underhanded way...and even though that's really *ucked up, it too is....tough.

I hope that each of the forumites involved in your particular transaction will really examine their inner self, because yes, in your case that was major league *BS!*

Make me a lowball offer on any of the knives I have listed for sale, and I'll do the best I can to help you put this unfortunate event behind you.
 
The sad thing is-the seller of the knife will probably rationalize his actions with the old:"money talks" or "it's business nothing personal."
And the guy who undercut your deal will probably blame it on the seller-"hey,I just made the offer.He didn't have to go for it."Or claim he didn't know the deal was firmed up.
Those two deseve each other and should be ashamed of their conduct.
Maybe they will both get hit by the Karma train when it rolls back through.
troy
 
A couple of months ago I sent Melvin-Purvis a rare Mad Dog to check out. Before the whole deal was struck another forumite offered me $200 more than the deal I had with M-P. I sent M-P a message, letting him know there was another buyer if he wanted to make a quick turnaround, M-P ended up keeping the knife, and I told the other guy sorry.

I'm not telling this to make myself sound good, but I expect the same treatment I give.

I agree with mikemck, I have heard about more and more questionable deals lately, and it is starting to take the fun out of it.

I agree with Melvin-Purvis, a deal is a deal.

Mark
 
If you had a confirmed deal with the seller and both parties agreed to the terms.If you followed the terms set and have not deviated,then he has no business selling the knife out from under you for more money.THIS IS NOT,the conduct we should be having here at these forums.You want the highest bidder,then do everyone here a favor and put it up at an auction site.The buyer that went behind you back is as guilty as the seller for being a party to this shady sellout IF knowing in advance a deal was already made. AS far as some of the other situations here at the f/s forums are concerned,point blank-if you want a no questions asked inspection period then this should be agreed upon before shipping off money or knives.Short of misrepresentation or damage,I do not expect an automatic inspection period just to see if I like the knife.That has to be a part of the deal before hand,not after the fact.If I don't like the way the knife feels in my hand when I receive it,I'm not going to demand a return unless I previously asked for an inspection period.The more and more I keep hearing these types of situations,I really don't want to take part in deals with formites here unless we all could start dealing with others with the utmost honesty and integrity.Some of these things that are occurring are with members that have been here and should know better,not just newbies.IF some people cannot deal in this manner,than they should not be allowed into the trading/selling forums.:mad:
 
Two words seal a deal in my eyes."Done Deal".When I email those words to someone, in my eyes and way of thinking it is a contract.Enough said on the subject.
Some cheesdick goes behind your back and offers more money,and the person takes it.Bad "%uckin" news on both parties.
What the hell is going on around here!!!!!!!!:mad:
1who buys please post the names and lets get with it.
 
I can post acceptance of the "Deal"

The seller here is, Jim Kohl from Michigan

The Buyer has contacted me and "Made things right"
It sounds as if the Seller was pulling both of our chains.
David Rinkus (dd2)has honored the original "Deal" that Jim Kohl made.

I have in the past, and will in the future deal with David (dd2)

Thanks, Chuck

Edited to let every one know that the "Buyer" has contacted me and we have worked out a "Happy Ending" to this saga. Thanks, David.
 
You are not incorrect in how you feel about this whole situation. It stinks. I would love to hear from the other two involved here. What in the world were you thinking. If what has been stated above is accurate then in my book you two are a couple of lowlifes. When a deal is struck and an agreement made, in my mind there is a contract. A gentleman's agreement is a contract to anyone with ethics.

Once again, I have not heard from the others involved. They should be named so that they will feel it neccessary to come forward to tell their side. They should also be named so that other members will know who not to make deals with and with who they should not discuss deals they have made with others.

Boy this really stinks. I have never had a bad dealing with any of the members on this forum. There are a lot of members that I would still trust to send a knife to without payment arriving first, but there is getting to be more and more members that I do not have this trust in. Those who have posted above are in the first group. I want to know the names of the two mentioned in the first post are so that they can be added to the second group. To tell you the truth, they would be added to a third group. The ones I would not trade with, buy from or sell to under any circumstance.
 
1whobuys,you are not wrong.That is a crappy way todo buisness.Your only as good as your word.Once you make a deal then all parties involved should live by it.I don't understand this one upping mentality.People should be happy with a fair trade for fair value.Sh!t almost all of us do this for fun
with our hard earned money only asking that we get treated fair.
 
You gotta expect that............


but I would avoid that person like the plague.

People who put $$ ahead of integrity and commitment have very little of either and will end up with no money or friends!! :(
 
Hi everyone. To add a little *hope* to this situation, I have been lucky enough so far to have had 6-8 dealings with forumates in the last few months...all went very smoothly. I agree that it is a shame that the CYA rule needs to apply in every transaction...but it was nice, for me, to have dealt with a string of very worthy and honorable members. Already, I have had fewer problems selling and buying here than I have had on E-Bay. That being said, the price of a man's intergity seems to vary more today than tech stocks...
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
People who put $$ ahead of integrity and commitment have very little of either and will end up with no money or friends!! :(
Click to expand...

excellent line Tom. I havent been here very long, but I have been lucky enough to have bought a couple knives and traded a couple knives without one hitch. I'm not sure whats been going on the past couple of weeks here, but it seems that lately integrity has become a victim of greed.
 
I join Rigormootis in having hope. In the 3 years I have been here, I have been involved in well over 100 transactions as either buyer or seller. Most were perfect with goods exactly as described & both parties doing just what they had promised. A couple were less than perfect but quickly & amicably resolved. Only one was brought here.

Maybe it's just because BF has gotten so much larger that the total number of ugly incidents has gone up & are being made public. Whatever the reason, and as distressing as it may be, I am sure that the vast majority of deals go off without a hitch.
 
OTHER than that, all my Buys/trades have gone without a hitch. I do not SELL often, but I buy and trade as often as I can. I have no problem with immediately shipping a knife or a check to another Formite AFTER the words: "It's a DEAL" are exchanged via E-mail.

All you have on BF is your word and I sincerely believe that if you are a member of BF, your word is GOLDEN.

No matter what, if you have a "Meeting of the minds" and agree to TERMS, you are BOUND to consumate the complete transaction.

Even if you have been offered a BETTER deal later.......Ira
 
Chuck contact me and let's work this out. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Looks like all the facts were not known to me or you. I have learned more about any deal that you may have had since reading all the posts here. Than I had known before getting the knife. I'm willing to make it right with you. We need to talk.
Email me when I can call you on Monday.
Thanks dd2
 
when we talk, here are copies of the emails to refresh our memories.

The 1st is telling you "I think I have a deal on the Shark"

The 2nd is from Jim Kohl saying "We" have a deal on the Shark"

The 3rd is telling you "I have a deal on the Shark" (ie, it's coming to my house"

The 4th is from Jim Kohl saying YOU asked him to bring the knife to a show so YOU could see it, and then YOU offering more than I did, and YOU bought the knife.

David, you can call my mobil any time, you have the numbers......


Email to dd2 at 5:16am on 1-20-02

Hi Dave,
What did they say about your shoulder?

I'm going to run an offer by you.
Since you have a history of selling Randall's it might be easier for you to sell my Smithsonian and get the kind of money you need for Busse SHI.
I on the other hand an getting to be known for having Busse's.
The Smith that I have is Mint and a beautiful knife.
If you can make it work, I'll trade you it for your SHI and the Police recruit.
I'll ship the knife so you will have it to show next weekend.
I on the other hand will be keeping the SHI and the recruit in my collection.
I think I have a deal on buying the Shark too. They both would be nice additions to have.
If you can live with this offer let me know, other wise I'm pretty sure I won't be able to do any thing on your knife until I go back to work this summer.
Thanks for listening. Hope your shoulder gets better quick. Good luck. Take care, Chuck



Email from Jim Kohl at 8:41am on 1-20-02

Don't feel bad Chuck - that never worked for me either
;>)

That #14 sounds fine, and I can live with the price.
OK -- Here's the deal: If you're that interested I'll
hold the Shark for you, and you can take some time
(say 60 days from today -- March 20?) to raise the $$.

Hang on to the #14, and see if you can find any of the
other trade stuff by then. Trading gives us both new
toys...

That's way too much on the Microtech. Unfortunately
many of them are, but they sure are nice knives.

Does that work for you?



Email to dd2 at 11:29 on 1-24-02

A third SHI just came out of the wood work.
Jerry posted about it.
I just got off the phone with him.
It is MINT unhandled, with the original sheath and the factory option sheath, a Busse patch, and sales slip.

When it rains, it pours. I missed them both.
I do have a lead on a 4th one though.

I worked a deal on the Shark, it is coming to my house.
I'll still do the Smithsonian for the SHI and Police recruit if you don't sell them this week end.
Let me know how things go.
Take care, Chuck




Email program confirmation that the 11:29am (central time) message had been displayed on dd2's computed
at 12:45pm on 1-24-02


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"dd2" <dyno.dave@gte.net> at 1/24/2002 12:29 PM

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Email from Jim Kohl at 10:47am on 1-27-02

I've got some bad news for you - the Shark's gone. I
talked to Dave about it and he asked if, since I
intended to walk the Wolverine Knife Colectors show, I
would stop by his table so he could see it. Bottom
line is that he offered me well over $1000 in cash. I
thought about asking if you wanted to beat his offer,
but you had said you were having problems raising cash
so I knew you wouldn't be interested. It looks real
good with his other, similar, Busse. I'm trying to
contact the guy that used to deal his knives at Gun
shows in the 80s, and, last time we talked, still had
a few pieces. If I am successful I'll let you know.


These are the main emails, I have some other in between, but these cover the subject pretty well.

I await your call.......
 
Sounds like a couple of fishy characters to me. Especially the seller of the Busse. To me, you guys already had a done deal. For him to sell it after you already had a worked out done deal is just unspeakable in terms of lowness. The undercutter isnt much higher on the scumbag list either. :(
 
Man, you must really be sick at heart over this, I'm sure.
It's just sad that people have no self respect or integrity these days, and are so easily swayed by the almighty $$$$.

Take heart though, in knowing they won't be doing anymore business here at bladeforums, and you managed to save other people the same frustration that they have inflicted on you.

About Jim Kohl, is that his forum name? A search of that username does not turn up any hits for some reason.

Hopefully, both of these POS's have been banned here, so as to save people the trouble of having actively ignore them.
 
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