Is it foolish to be a steel snob? (not the BF member)

I am really starting to be not to impressed with S30V the more I use it and really starting to like VG-1 a lot better. The more I use both steels and others the more I like VG-1 steel.

For big blades there is nothing better than INFI IMO, it will hold a scary sharp edge almost forever under hard use such as heavy chopping and battening etc.

SR-101 is another excellent steel for larger blades. :)

This is from my personal experiences, others may vary. ;)
 
Last edited:
Ankerson said:
I am really starting to be not to impressed with S30V the more I use it and really starting to like VG-1 a lot better. The more I use both steels and others the more I like VG-1 steel...
Click to expand...

I think that you are reading my mind, Ankerson. From my impressions, VG-1 takes a finer edge and is quite tough as well. In fact, I have a VG-1 Voyager in my pocket as I type this. I find S30V annoying to sharpen and I can knock the edge off of it in no time, but that is just me. I like 440C and AUS-8 as well, so what do I know. :)
 
AUS8 does not get the credit it should and when done by CS its simply amazing. Its one of two reasons I'm about to buy a recon 1.
 
I would rank it in order of importance:

1. Knife Sharpness
2. Edge and Blade geometry
3. Hardness suitable for the task at hand
4. Steel

The steel itself is not really that important. Do your own testing and you'd be surprised by how well a cheap steel like 1095 performs. And if it doesn't, and you happen to live locally, come over to my place, we'd cut cardboard with some higher hardness 1095 and you can form your own opinion.

Edge retention is indeed important for some people. The latest ZDP-189 and CPM M4 supersteels? The edge is gone after 1 round of fiberglass cutting, drywall cutting, etc. A couple years ago I was going through 1" inch of blade every month, because I had to sharpen the knife several times a day.
 
A.P.F. said:
I think that you are reading my mind, Ankerson. From my impressions, VG-1 takes a finer edge and is quite tough as well. In fact, I have a VG-1 Voyager in my pocket as I type this. I find S30V annoying to sharpen and I can knock the edge off of it in no time, but that is just me. I like 440C and AUS-8 as well, so what do I know. :)
Click to expand...


I found that the S30V edge will dull much quicker than my VG-1 Voyager also.

VG-1 will take a frightening edge for sure. :thumbup:
 
VG-1, MBS-26, and 19C27 are all quite nice (my Cold Steel K4 neck knife is a lot of fun on cardboard), but I like 13C26/AEB-L, 14C28N, 12C27, and 12C27M better.
 
Ankerson said:
I found that the S30V edge will dull much quicker than my VG-1 Voyager also.

VG-1 will take a frightening edge for sure. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

do you mean to say that all the raves about the supersteels are unfounded? lucky me I can't afford knives with premium steels.
 
singularity35 said:
do you mean to say that all the raves about the supersteels are unfounded? lucky me I can't afford knives with premium steels.
Click to expand...

All I am saying is that from my personal experience it is. ;)

Your mileage may vary.....

VG-1 is no joke......
 
hardheart said:
I do not think heat treat and geometry are more important than steel choice. The user can change the geometry if they want to improve cutting performance or edge durability, so it is not an initial consideration, at least to people who spend enough money and have enough interest to be steel snobs in the first place :) Heat treat is important, but how? Would you rather properly treated S30V or 440C? Or properly treated 440C and bad S30V? Or vice versa? Or proper S30V & bad S30V? Basically, you always want a good heat treat, and the difference really is the steel itself. Heat treat will affect toughness, corrosion resistance, wear resistance, and more, but only within the limits of the alloying content. The best heat treat will not make the best 3V as stain resistant as average 420J2, nor will it make the best 420J2 as tough as average 3V.
Click to expand...

You could say the same thing the other way around: You always want a decent steel, but it's the heat treat that will make the difference. Basically, the heat treat makes more of a difference in performance than the blade steel. Sure, you need to consider application, and choose the right steel for the job and environment, but a great heat treat will trump a "good enough" heat treat any day. Heat treating is an art, not just a science, and those who do it well can get much more out of the same blade steel than someone else. If you need a stainless blade, then look for the best heat treater working with stainless, etc. You say heat treat will only affect performance within the limits of steel content. That's like saying a human ice skater can only get as good as a human can get, so why bother choosing the best coach? I think it's been shown that heat treat can widely affect steel performance, and not just the difference between good treat and bad, but also the difference between good and great. Most companies do a pretty quick and inexpensive treat on their knives, some spend days on a laborious expensive treat. In the end, the differences are obvious when you take the knife into the field.
 
Heat treat really does not make the difference in choice, you said it yourself. First you choose the right alloy for the job, then you try to get a knife made from that alloy from a reputable company/maker that knows how to heat treat. The steel choice trumps the heat treat choice because you always want the best heat treat you can get. Basically, imo, the quality of heat treat is not a choice, so it is not the determining factor.

I really can't think of a situation where heat treat trumps alloy selection. I can think of situations where questions of QC of one company vs another may come up, or overall design, but not just HT vs alloy. People won't say 'get the good 420HC from company X because company Y heat treats S30V poorly' They will say 'get the good S30V from company Z because company Y heat treats S30V poorly' If you want optimal S30V performance, then you don't want optimal 420HC performance (if you can tell the difference based on your criteria) I don't think you are ever without options to get properly heat treated blades in any popular alloy, so always go with the steel you want, just from a knowledgeable provider.

If Paul Bos was the coach, then I would send all my skaters (stainless steels) to him for training. At the end, some would win gold, silver, bronze, or nothing at all, but they got the same coaching quality.
 
hardheart said:
Heat treat really does not make the difference in choice, you said it yourself. First you choose the right alloy for the job, then you try to get a knife made from that alloy from a reputable company/maker that knows how to heat treat. The steel choice trumps the heat treat choice because you always want the best heat treat you can get. Basically, imo, the quality of heat treat is not a choice, so it is not the determining factor.
Click to expand...

Some people may choose heat treat before alloy, just read this thread. I often do as well. The only "alloy" issues that take precedence for me are stainless vs. carbon, and occasionally some sharpening issues, but I'm not looking at the differences between similar steels before I consider how the steel was treated. For example, I care more about heat treat than I do about differences in alloy content between two decent stainless steels. You have a "good enough heat treat" thought process and I have a "good enough steel" thought process. In reality, they both matter, but once you have a decent steel and a good enough heat treat, it becomes about which has the greater impact toward greatness. I believe that to be the heat treat process. Why is the quality of heat treat not a choice? I have alot of choice when it comes to heat treat, and I choose accordingly. There's almost as much variety out there as blade steels.
 
I think it's important to remember that today's snob steels will one day be old fogey traditional steels, too. I like what I like, and for me, it isn't about high end steel, but about getting the most from the tool in my pocket when I need it. I hate rust and I've noticed that none of my S30V or VG10 or D2 has rusted, but my Case Sodbuster did a little, and so did my GEC Barlow a little.

I don't use my knives that much, but I carry them everywhere. Shoot, a stainless Case serves me as well as a Spyderco S30V. My main gripe is against steels that rust easily.

If that makes me a snob, I'll wear it with pride.

I'll still buy carbon, but I don't carry them nearly as much because of they're high maintenance.
 
isn't it all about the total package? maybe we should select knives with the flavor of steel we want(whatever our reasons are) and just make sure that they come from a reputable manufacturer with a proven track record. It is usually the custom makers and the top companies who offer the most premium steels and HT. Again it would be purpose and usage that should determine the choice of material. However there are other reasons like curiosity which may mean wanting to try out how a certain steel performs.
 
Aus-8 works great for me. While I love my S30V, there is nothing wrong with lower end steels. Just not as nice.
 
There are many quality steels that I can use without seeing enough difference to hardly notice. Many times I carry a fairly new Kershaw Skyline it does the EDC as well as any of my higher dollar knives, I enjoy sharpening anyway so when it needs a touch up, that's a good thing.:D
 
Balislinger said:
Why is the quality of heat treat not a choice? I have alot of choice when it comes to heat treat, and I choose accordingly. There's almost as much variety out there as blade steels.
Click to expand...
I mean that every steel has it's application, but not every level of heat treat quality does. I always want the best heat treat, and the only difference is what steel that level of quality is applied to. I may want 1055 over S5, or 440A over S110V, due to application, but I will never want bad heat treat over good heat treat.

Now, there are steels which are close enough that the difference in heat treat would be the determining factor. But in that case, I would skip both and choose another steel. 5160 and L6 are hypoeutectoid alloy steels with very good toughness. Maybe I am looking at two knives, and one was heat treated by heating to cherry red, dunking in used motor oil, and then placing in a toaster oven until straw yellow. The other was austenized in a PID controlled salt tank and then marquenched with a K type thermocouple attached to an Omega pyrometer in the quenchant. What do I do? Skip both and get a Fehrman. 3V at 57-59 Rc (toughness peaks at 58) with wear resistance about the same as D2, well above the other two. Or maybe a Harner at 60, slight drop in toughness with more wear resistance. Maybe I don't want wear resistance, I need more toughness. Then I look into shock steels & who is making them into knives. Heat treat makes the difference if I let it. But if I always look for a great heat treat, then I choose a better alloy to receive it.
 
I personally am not really concerned with what blade steel a piticular knife is made from; I do have to say that I buy from quality manufactures though (Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, Etc.).

To be honest, sometimes I prefer a less "high tech" blade steel as it makes for quicker sharpening sessions. A person has to pick the right knife for the particular application it is needed for.

VG-10, AUS8, CM154, S30V, 420HC (BUCK'S), 440C, CPM154, ZDP-189, etc.; they all have their place in the knife industry. There are many different people with different knife interests and we all have unique financial situations. Options are good and I try not to look down on anyone just because of what steel is in there knives.
 
Balislinger said:
Some people may choose heat treat before alloy, just read this thread. I often do as well.
Click to expand...
How can HT alone be a basis for the choice, when HT is dictated or defined by steel composition?
Any steel has certain properties and they can be maximized by using proper HT. Like hardHeart said, there is only so much you can achieve with even absolutely perfect HT, but there are limits imposed by steel composition.
After all, perfect HT for one steel will ruin another steel altogether.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think what you mean by choosing HT before steel is choosing a maker who you know does decent HT on several alloys and then you pick one of them... But it's all still dictated by alloy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top