Is it just me, or...

[Myker]

Look at the picture in post #9, the far right arrow, The under cut in the frame, where the two tangents meet, not looking to fight with you but come on, that's sloppy, pure and simply.

Same picture far left arrow,(horizontal) that little "round" cut, most certainly SHOULD be there.

Sorry, no pictures of my jeep...

 

[au5t3n5]

I can't believe you are all bickering over those holes on the Hinderer which actually serve a purpose. On the contrary, please open your sebenzas and look at the cuts into the ti that were made while cutting out the lock. Those are UGLIER than the slightly enlarged holes in on the Hinderer. You just don't see them in your "perfect" sebenzas because you use them and admire them when they are assembled and not open. I'm too lazy to take my own picture, so I found one with google and circled it for you all.

Would you call that intentional? Does it serve a purpose? Then rethink your Hinderer argument.

For the record, I have a Hinderer and a handful of sebenzas, and I still prefer the sebenza. But really this is just getting out of hand calling those holes a "job fail" on the Hinderer. There is a reason why Hinderers are just as expensive as a CRK and are considered high end knives. Sheesh.

Sorry if I might have stirred a storm in here... but c'mon guys... (and gals)

 

[Myker]

For the record, I never said "job fail".

In case that was at me, and as far as I have read no one has said fail, so let's not start new catch phrases.

 

[au5t3n5]

For the record, I never said "job fail".

In case that was at me, and as far as I have read no one has said fail, so let's not start new catch phrases.

Nah... not at you. But you should read those links that JayTaylor posted... or give Rick a call and tell him he is sloppy and how to fix it (or listen to his explanation for why its there).

That was in reference to this: (which basically insinuates "job fail")

I beg to differ! I would have got fired from my last job for putting out something as sloppy as this...

Evidence!!!

 

[JustinFournier]

I can't believe you are all bickering over those holes on the Hinderer which actually serve a purpose.

I don't think anyone is arguing about what purpose the holes serve.

My point was the machining marks around the spring cutout are sloppy machining, thus CRK has machined their product to a higher standard...

And that the grade 5 titanium is a relatively brittle alloy making it unsuitable for prying, thus attempting to control fractures in 1 the front of the lockbar cutout is inconsistent with it's practical use and 2 the spring cutout reaches to back of the cutout for the lockbar so if you were to pry with it, it would naturally sheer at that point as the material is much thinner there, making it unnecessary to control the fracture at that point.

Now if you look back at Gen 1 and 2 Xms, you will notice many spring cutouts with no machine marks, and the lockbar cutouts are actually quite smooth and beveled well with a larger diameter hole in the back of the lockbar cutout. Very much like the Sebenza.

So in the later gen 3 and 4, you see these "features" come up, but no material change to make them appropriate.

An appropriate update would have been: People are using my knife to pry and breaking the lockside so I will add sheer points to control the fractures ensuring they break in a controlled fashion and use a material suitable for this task.

An inappropriate update is, People die when they crash the helicopters I make, and ejection seats save lives in fighter jets, so I will add a fighter jet ejection seat to my helicopter.

Thus, my Sebenza is the standard to which I measure all other folders, and so far from what I have seen which I readily admit is only a small % of the custom makers out there, is IMO unsurpassed in machining tolerances, design and the melding of form and function.

 

[au5t3n5]

I don't think anyone is arguing about what purpose the holes serve.

My point was the machining marks around the spring cutout are sloppy machining, thus CRK has machined their product to a higher standard...

And that the grade 5 titanium is a relatively brittle alloy making it unsuitable for prying, thus attempting to control fractures in 1 the front of the lockbar cutout is inconsistent with it's practical use and 2 the spring cutout reaches to back of the cutout for the lockbar so if you were to pry with it, it would naturally sheer at that point as the material is much thinner there, making it unnecessary to control the fracture at that point.

Now if you look back at Gen 1 and 2 Xms, you will notice many spring cutouts with no machine marks, and the lockbar cutouts are actually quite smooth and beveled well with a larger diameter hole in the back of the lockbar cutout. Very much like the Sebenza.

So in the later gen 3 and 4, you see these "features" come up, but no material change to make them appropriate.

An appropriate update would have been: People are using my knife to pry and breaking the lockside so I will add sheer points to control the fractures ensuring they break in a controlled fashion and use a material suitable for this task.

An inappropriate update is, People die when they crash the helicopters I make, and ejection seats save lives in fighter jets, so I will add a fighter jet ejection seat to my helicopter.

Thus, my Sebenza is the standard to which I measure all other folders, and so far from what I have seen which I readily admit is only a small % of the custom makers out there, is IMO unsurpassed in machining tolerances, design and the melding of form and function.

Okay.... but what about that notch in the sebenza? If CRK is so perfect and "unsurpassed in machining tolerances," can you explain to me the purpose of that notch?

Thanks.

 

[Nullity]

I think all the knives mentioned are good knives.

Y'all have fun.

 

[JustinFournier]

Okay.... but what about that notch in the sebenza? If CRK is so perfect and "unsurpassed in machining tolerances," can you explain to me the purpose of that notch?

Thanks.

No I cannot, as a matter of fact I have never fully disassembled any of my Sebenzas instead removing the blade per the instructions stickied here. They call for a simple blade removal without a complete dis-assembly, so I have never even seen the inside of the scales.

It's not relevant from the outside, which is the part of the knife I see and what I am comparing here. I am open to hear more about it however. I'm considering taking one of mine apart now.

Here are some pics taken from hinderer's site to further explain the inconsistencies in their current models alone.

To explain this pic further, if the small cutouts are to create a fracture line to control a sheer, they should be consistently across the point on which the fracture would be ideal to form. I would assume to protect the user's hands. So the one on the back of the lockbar by the spring would logically move across the cutout for the spring as this is the thinnest point. The cut would be placed to start the fracture across the spring. As you can see in the pics, this is not the case.

Secondly, the 90 degree in the front of the lockbar would I assume break following the initial cut as to move the same direction as the initial cut as that is the thinnest point remaining. However, you can see they do not, some cuts are even towards the front, they would then be designed to direct the fracture along towards the pivot?

I am not saying the Hinderer is bad, it simply is sloppy compared to a Sebenza.

 

[RiverRat84]

No I cannot, as a matter of fact I have never fully disassembled any of my Sebenzas instead removing the blade per the instructions stickied here. They call for a simple blade removal without a complete dis-assembly, so I have never even seen the inside scales.

Instructions say to remove the blade...then take everything apart.

Yea I'm nitpicking, but isn't that what this thread is about?

 

[au5t3n5]

Instructions say to remove the blade...then take everything apart.

Yea I'm nitpicking, but isn't that what this thread is about?

Yup. I hope he doesn't get a heart attack when he sees those grooves on the inside of his sebenza...

Also, all my sebenzas have different grooves from cutting out the lock bar. They are "sloppier" than those small differences in the pictures. Not trying to say anything is bad about CRK, but if you are going to say CRK is 100% perfection and better than ALL OTHER KNIVES (for the most part), you really need to think again.

 

[RiverRat84]

I don't know man. I've had some knives. Mostly customs. The makers have been on point and awesome to work with, very friendly and helpful, and the knives were always worth the money. Knock on wood, I've been lucky to not have a bad experience after thousands and thousands of dollars worth of knives.

But there is just something about CRK, namely the Sebenza, for me.

It's not the hype, nor what some call "elitism". It's just a damn good product that I'm happy to have in my pocket day to day with a few at home waiting for me.

I know it'll cut when I need it to and look good doing it. I also know if I have an issue, i'll be taken care of. Just the way it is.

When I get another folder it doesn't feel "right" to me the way a Sebenza does. Even folders I had carried long before the Sebenza don't. So I unintentionally compare others to them and either sell them or put them away for a rainy day or for something cool for my kid to have when he gets older.

They aren't everyones cup of tea, but I love em and it's my money I'm spending and my knives I'm using so i'll wave that fanboy flag any day

(this thread is about love for the Seb and comparing all other knives to em, right?)

 

[statmonster]

In response to the original premise; yes, the Sebenza is the benchmark that I compare all other folding knives too.

 

[au5t3n5]

I don't know man. I've had some knives. Mostly customs. The makers have been on point and awesome to work with, very friendly and helpful, and the knives were always worth the money. Knock on wood, I've been lucky to not have a bad experience after thousands and thousands of dollars worth of knives.

But there is just something about CRK, namely the Sebenza, for me.

It's not the hype, nor what some call "elitism". It's just a damn good product that I'm happy to have in my pocket day to day with a few at home waiting for me.

I know it'll cut when I need it to and look good doing it. I also know if I have an issue, i'll be taken care of. Just the way it is.

When I get another folder it doesn't feel "right" to me the way a Sebenza does. Even folders I had carried long before the Sebenza don't. So I unintentionally compare others to them and either sell them or put them away for a rainy day or for something cool for my kid to have when he gets older.

They aren't everyones cup of tea, but I love em and it's my money I'm spending and my knives I'm using so i'll wave that fanboy flag any day

(this thread is about love for the Seb and comparing all other knives to em, right?)

This is exactly how I feel. I took compare other knives to the Sebenza.


But to the others in this thread (you know who you are) to call other high end knives a "sloppy" "failed job" is disgusting to me. Yes CRK knives are amazing, but just because you have one of the best doesn't mean you can start taking shots are other brands...That is all. To say CRK is marginally better is one thing... to call other knives just sloppy when they are clearly also high end knives with great fit to finish just because you have a CRK is just.... I don't know...if you really think Hinderer is THAT bad.... then what do you make of lower production knives? Are they just garbage for one time use?

 

[JustinFournier]

Instructions say to remove the blade...then take everything apart.

...all my sebenzas have different grooves from cutting out the lock bar. They are "sloppier" than those small differences in the pictures. Not trying to say anything is bad about CRK, but if you are going to say CRK is 100% perfection and better than ALL OTHER KNIVES (for the most part), you really need to think again.

True, I never took it all apart, as I didn't want to mar screws, risk scratching anything etc. The blade came out, and I put the blade back in the same way. I used a Q-tip to apply the grease to the surfaces inside the scales, but never noted the difference between the grove cut on the inside. I didn't see a need to fully dis-assemble it. Is there a reason it has to come completely apart? Please share it with me.

I dunno what to tell you, the difference may indeed exist between the cuts on the Sebbys, but that is on the inside where I don't see them, and there are no machining marks ANYWHERE on the outside.

I'll repeat myself for the 15th time in this thread. I am yet to see a recent Xm without machine marks in the spring; There are no machining marks anywhere on any of my Sebbys that I can see when it's assembled. On that point alone, CRK is superior. Period.

I am going to say CRK is better than the VAST majority of knives, and I thought about it again, and I still think CRK is the standard by which I measure all other knives. Obviously they are not perfect. They were made by a man, none of whom are perfect. I never said they were perfect. They are both very good knives made by very skilled professionals, but I will repeat again, I think the CRK is machined better. Even if the CRK is twice as sloppy, they put the sloppy on the inside where you don't see it. Clearly that is better.

I want to like the Xm-18 so bad. I love the stonewash finish, I love the way you can customize the knife, I really want to try Duratech 20CV. I like how you can change the scales, I like the look of the knife and I would love to try the flipper on them as they are apparently some of the best at executing the design. The ergonomics look great, I really really want to love this knife.

But I am not going to pay $800ish for this knife when the fit and finish is inferior to a CRK @ $400ish.

I would gladly paw through a pile of Xms and look for one that is machined just right, that doesn't have a weak detent at the $380ish they sell direct for, and more than likely love it. But will I have the opportunity to do that?

Clearly not. I have confidence that when I buy the CRK, it's going to be machined the way I have come to expect, and any other issue will be handled within warranty. I can't send the Xm back and say hey I don't like the machine marks in the spring cutout do it again.

Clearly, CRK sets a higher standard by my measure.

 

[RiverRat84]

Yea I dig what your saying. That's the thing about opinions though, even if they aren't ours everyone is entitled to theirs:thumbup:

(for the record though, I'm always right)...jokes people, jokes.

 

[au5t3n5]

True, I never took it all apart, as I didn't want to mar screws, risk scratching anything etc. The blade came out, and I put the blade back in the same way. I used a Q-tip to apply the grease to the surfaces inside the scales, but never noted the difference between the grove cut on the inside. I didn't see a need to fully dis-assemble it. Is there a reason it has to come completely apart? Please share it with me.

I dunno what to tell you, the difference may indeed exist between the cuts on the Sebbys, but that is on the inside where I don't see them, and there are no machining marks ANYWHERE on the outside.

I'll repeat myself for the 15th time in this thread. I am yet to see a recent Xm without machine marks in the spring; There are no machining marks anywhere on any of my Sebbys that I can see when it's assembled. On that point alone, CRK is superior. Period.

I am going to say CRK is better than the VAST majority of knives, and I thought about it again, and I still think CRK is the standard by which I measure all other knives. Obviously they are not perfect. They were made by a man, none of whom are perfect. I never said they were perfect. They are both very good knives made by very skilled professionals, but I will repeat again, I think the CRK is machined better. Even if the CRK is twice as sloppy, they put the sloppy on the inside where you don't see it. Clearly that is better.

I want to like the Xm-18 so bad. I love the stonewash finish, I love the way you can customize the knife, I really want to try Duratech 20CV. I like how you can change the scales, I like the look of the knife and I would love to try the flipper on them as they are apparently some of the best at executing the design. The ergonomics look great, I really really want to love this knife.

But I am not going to pay $800ish for this knife when the fit and finish is inferior to a CRK @ $400ish.

I would gladly paw through a pile of Xms and look for one that is machined just right, that doesn't have a weak detent at the $380ish they sell direct for, and more than likely love it. But will I have the opportunity to do that?

Clearly not. I have confidence that when I buy the CRK, it's going to be machined the way I have come to expect, and any other issue will be handled within warranty. I can't send the Xm back and say hey I don't like the machine marks in the spring cutout do it again.

Clearly, CRK sets a higher standard by my measure.

You need to take it apart completely so that when you put the blade back in you can tighten the screws one more time to make sure it is all in place. You lightly tighten everything and then reinsert the blade and then tighten the screws just a fraction of a hair to make sure it is all set. You can even flick the knife after you reassemble it (Chris Reeve himself says so).

Your logic doesn't make sense. How can you say the outside is perfect therefore it is the BEST even if the inside can be the crappiest thing in the world? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are machining flaws with the CRK... hiding it on the inside doesn't change that fact.

I guess if you are convinced then there is nothing I can say to change your logic. Enjoy your CRK, I know I am.

 

[JustinFournier]

This is exactly how I feel. I took compare other knives to the Sebenza.


But to the others in this thread (you know who you are) to call other high end knives a "sloppy" "failed job" is disgusting to me. Yes CRK knives are amazing, but just because you have one of the best doesn't mean you can start taking shots are other brands...That is all. To say CRK is marginally better is one thing... to call other knives just sloppy when they are clearly also high end knives with great fit to finish just because you have a CRK is just.... I don't know...if you really think Hinderer is THAT bad.... then what do you make of lower production knives? Are they just garbage for one time use?

I said the machining is sloppy, go re-read. It is, I proved it.

They are both very high end knives, I didn't say a Hinderer is that bad. I said it is not as good as CRK.

What do I think of the lower production knives? Reasonably priced for their quality for the most part. You don't see regular production knives going absurd prices. I have some awesome performing knives as low as $40, with awesome performing AUS-8 steel I paid a very low price for and I am very happy with. But I didn't shell out near $1000 for them.

Bang for buck, they are great. They are not a CRK, but I didn't pay a CRK price. I won't pay more for less.

 

[au5t3n5]

I said the machining is sloppy, go re-read. It is, I proved it.

Did you open your sebenza and take a look at the grooves on the cut out? Is your sebenza sloppy now? It is, I proved it.

 

[JustinFournier]

Did you open your sebenza and take a look at the grooves on the cut out? Is your sebenza sloppy now? It is, I proved it.

How can you say the outside is perfect therefore it is the BEST even if the inside can be the crappiest thing in the world?

There is almost nothing to the inside of it, I watched a ton of videos regarding it but they are never in close enough detail to show that little cutout you pointed out, and they never showed multiples so I could identify any small difference. And I still don't see why you have to take it all apart. I'm not sure where I got this idea from, it must have been a video but I thought it was the thread here. Clearly I was wrong about that. I barely loosen the screw just behind the pivot, and then I simply re-tighten it after I put the blade back in, I never dis-assembled the whole thing. For the most part, you can't with the lanyard holding it together, I don't know how to retie it so I'm not going to take it off and all this is really beside the point.

I can only assume you are angry and that's why you keep addressing other irrelevant issues and avoid the point I have clearly proven. What do you want me to say? You are right? Ok, your avoidance of fact proves disproves it's existance. Are you happy now?

 

[RiverRat84]

Eh, I'm no moderator, nor a teachers pet, nor Dr. Phil, but don't we get into enough fights with CRK haters?

Take a deep breath, close your eyes, chant Sebenza a few times and save the verbal beatdowns for lockface/warranty threads

By the way, I use to break my Sebs down often and all the way because I wanted to get every screw, nook and cranny clean, plus its a great way to get to know the knife and appreciate it a little more. Now I usually only clean them prior to putting them away before taking out a different one and using it:thumbup:

To justin: the lanyard is tied inside a pin that comes out like the spacers do. No untying and retying necessary :thumbup: