Is it just tradition?

It's not snobbery, in this case it's promoting understanding of the entire concept of sharpening the blade, New technology is a great thing but if all you know is the new technology and in the case of sharpening get fantastic results from your WS for example do you really know how to optimize your results?

This applies to knife sharpening, photography, auto repair, sure you could put your camera on full auto and get beautiful pictures, you could clamp your blade in a Lansky and get great edges but I'm sure if you understood all the concepts involved and learned from the beginning how to get a sharp edge on your knife or a great picture using your basic camera equipment think of how much better it could be.

My daughter's bf is a really good photographer he's great at manipulating digital media and getting the results he eventually wants by tweaking with the software. His argument to me was what difference does it make if he understands how the old focal plane shutter cameras worked, how the different settings along with the different types of film gave you an infinite variety of possible results.

I finally got him to put down his Canon Rebel and pick up my F1, after 6 months of shooting real film and having to understand how everything affected the final picture, he learned. He learned the basics and how to use the understanding of how his equipment evolved thus being able to exploit to his advantage every aspect of his new equipment. Plus the next time he was handed an older camera he knew how to get the best results from the equipment he had available.

Same applies to sharpening knives in my opinion, I have most of the sharpening systems out there, I learned how to sharpen old school and evolved with the equipment so when someone asks my opinion I tell them learn how to do it with the minimal equipment available and when you have to 2"X72" slack belt grinder or a 8" water stone you'll get the best edge possible because you understand the evolution of the process and equipment. At that point you can make an educated decision as to what method you want to use to achieve you desired end result.

I think like most who support learning free hand sharpening in the case of the OP versus using the WS to do a major reprofile of a blade your best bet would be to do it old school at first.

One other thought, power tools used to do a job that can be done by hand by someone who's not proficient in the task either way will find that the use of power can magnify errors and accelerate mistakes to the point where you've ruined your blade, something that takes a lot longer when done by hand.

Some advice will be given by elitist techno snobs but when I give my opinion is because I've tried most of the different ways of doing things, I've made my mistakes and learned from them so when asked for my opinion I try to impart the knowledge achieved through experience to the person asking the question.

There are many ways to skin a cat but there's only one best way at the time your skinning it. The more you know, the more options you have available to you to get the best results in whatever you're trying to accomplish.

This is the last thing I'll say on this subject, you should never ask someone's opinion then discount it because you don't like or agree with it, you'll find yourself working alone and figuring things out by yourself quite often. My Old Man used to tell me, "...you can always learn something from anybody, even if it's how not to do something."

Best of luck in your quest thedancingsousa.
 
I'm one of those guys who usually reply with "buy good stones instead" to most threads about sharpening systems. Let me explain why.

I've tried (and still own) quite a few sharpening gizmos. The good ones work as advertised, I'm not saying they don't. However, I find them limited. Some don't work well on certain blade shapes, grinds or knife sizes. With knowledge and a piece of sandpaper, there are no limits to what you can sharpen.

I also travel a lot, and spend a good amount of time outdoors. Sharpening systems are heavy and bulky, so they stay home. I found that when my knives are getting used the hardest, I'll have a small diamond stone some sandpaper and a strop, but not my Edge Pro or Sharpmaker.

For the past few years, I've only used sharpening jigs to regrind blades that need a new edge bevel or something like that.

I'm a slow learner, I know that about myself, but when I apply a skill consistently everyday I get very good at it. So I try to stick to one or two methods that work for me in most situations. For example, the only handguns I shoot are DA revolvers, I sold all my semiautos and shot nothing but DA revolvers until I was good with them. When I need to learn a new wrestling technique I sometimes lock myself up for a couple of days until I've got it figured out. The same happens to me with sharpening, most of my knife sharpening happens away from home (when I'm living out of a backpack or saddle bag) so I needed to learn a way to consistently sharpen different tools. That's why I chose to focus on freehand sharpening. It works better for my particular needs, and I'm not the kind of fellow who can use different methods with success.
 
Franciscomv, very well said and I'm guessing from your location you spend a lot of time in the saddle or in the weeds with your pack. I agree very rarely have I ever had the room to bring a Sharpmaker, let alone an EP or WS.

:thumbup:
 
Well as far as tech goes, I'm generally very hesitant about adopting new tech (super steel is one of them)
But as far as sharpening tech goes. I don't feel the need to have my edges perfectly done and polished. I free hand everything with pretty good results. It's not the quality of the edge pro but it gets me a very workable edge.

Don't take me and snobbish, but I don't need to spend $100 plus on a setup when I can do pretty good with 2 $15 stones
 
Why is there a class of, at least in my eyes, snobs?

Is it just because new technology isn't traditional?


I've not noticed a class of free handed sharpening snobs, and it has nothing to do with tradition IMO.
We may have some sharpening snobs in general, but its not limited to freehanders:p

IMO all need to learn how to sharpen freehand. Not a thing wrong with using some type of sharpening system IF one knows what they're doing on it, but I still think people should learn to freehand.

Some of the systems work great, but some people don't take the time to learn how to use them properly.
I've seen many a knife with a messed up edge from people that don't learn to use them first on cheap knives.
If I see an add here saying the knife has been sharpened on an Edge Pro(or similar) I'm going to take a long hard look at that edge. Many take off way to much steel, and many thin the tip out to much.
I'm thinking if some of these people had learned to freehand first the transition to a system would've been easier for them.
 
I think the issue is due to newer and newer technology being introduced to supplement basic learning and practice.

Take hunting for example. This day and age we have range finders, lasers, and all sorts of mobile computers to tell us at what angle we need to shoot for optimal bullet placement. Meanwhile our parents, grandparents and great grandparents actually went out and invested the time necessary to actually learn how to do just that, and they didn't whine about it.

Part of the issue is society becoming lazier and lazier in what it does.
 
I've not noticed a class of free handed sharpening snobs, and it has nothing to do with tradition IMO.
We may have some sharpening snobs in general, but its not limited to freehanders:p

IMO all need to learn how to sharpen freehand. Not a thing wrong with using some type of sharpening system IF one knows what they're doing on it, but I still think people should learn to freehand.

Some of the systems work great, but some people don't take the time to learn how to use them properly.
I've seen many a knife with a messed up edge from people that don't learn to use them first on cheap knives.
If I see an add here saying the knife has been sharpened on an Edge Pro(or similar) I'm going to take a long hard look at that edge. Many take off way to much steel, and many thin the tip out to much.
I'm thinking if some of these people had learned to freehand first the transition to a system would've been easier for them.

It should be noted that it's usually better to learn to sharpen freehand before using a system so they know what the basic concepts are beforehand.
 
I think the issue is due to newer and newer technology being introduced to supplement basic learning and practice.

Take hunting for example. This day and age we have range finders, lasers, and all sorts of mobile computers to tell us at what angle we need to shoot for optimal bullet placement. Meanwhile our parents, grandparents and great grandparents actually went out and invested the time necessary to actually learn how to do just that, and they didn't whine about it.

Part of the issue is society becoming lazier and lazier in what it does.

This is pretty much how I feel, honestly.
 
I'm not just talking about the work sharp. That was only my most readily available example. I'm sure when the gun was invented there was a class of people that said "Why would I use that thing? We've been killing with nothing but swords for centuries! When my grandparents had to swing three times with a sword to kill a person instead of shooting one bullet, they didn't complain!" (no offence Charlie :P ).

I'm just saying that whenever there comes some new piece of technology, or some new technique, or anything like that, people look down on it and start taking the high ground because their technology/technique/tool is older.
 
I'm not just talking about the work sharp. That was only my most readily available example. I'm sure when the gun was invented there was a class of people that said "Why would I use that thing? We've been killing with nothing but swords for centuries! When my grandparents had to swing three times with a sword to kill a person instead of shooting one bullet, they didn't complain!" (no offence Charlie :P ).

I'm just saying that whenever there comes some new piece of technology, or some new technique, or anything like that, people look down on it and start taking the high ground because their technology/technique/tool is older.

Now, that's not to say that everything new is good, or that everything old is bad. There's crap in every generation.

I can't help but feel that you've helped answer your own question. :thumbup:
 
I think a lot of it comes down to jealousy.

You get some stubborn people that have been free handing for years with great results, then some guy comes in with his worksharp saying how great his edges are from 5 minutes of work. The freehander get mad since its taken him years to hone his skills, and the guy with the worksharp has no clue how to sharpen knives except for swiping it a few times on a machine. The freehander is too closed minded to try something newer and faster, regardless of skill level, and puts down the other guy.

I agree, freehanding is the epitome of sharpening. It's the basic skill set to get something sharp, and if you can master freehanding, you could master sharpening on anything else. Truly, I wouldn't recomend something like paper wheels if you didn't know how to freehand. OTOH buying a worksharp as your only method doesn't make you a pro either.
 
I can't help but feel that you've helped answer your own question. :thumbup:

How have I answered my own question? Saying that there's crap in every generation doesn't mean that older is better or that old has a right to insult everything new. Am I completely misunderstanding you here?
 
How have I answered my own question? Saying that there's crap in every generation doesn't mean that older is better or that old has a right to insult everything new. Am I completely misunderstanding you here?

Look, you're the guy who made the thread, not me. Your assertion is that people who look down on machines which help people who don't know sharpen knives, sharpen knives must be snobs. And while one of the reasons is yes, that people look down on machines that help lazy people skip having to learn how to sharpen a knife, another is that plenty of us have seen new things which are supposed to help make a task easier, and it's junk. There's an entire line of such products, all with the "As Seen on TV!" label. All crap.

At the end of the day, there are guys on this board who can put edges on knives using stones and paper that you will NEVER match with a Sharpmaker, Edge Pro, or any other crutch tool. That's a fact. So, I guess my question would be: why are you (seemingly) oblivious as to why people who worked hard and learned an actual (and actually valuable) skill, would look down on those who would rather use crutches instead?

Let's put it another way, why wouldn't a guy who can run fast (after building up his speed and stamina over time) look down on some fat schlub who just decides to use a Segway to cover that same distance instead? Sorry, I just kind of feel like this was a question that was constructed in such a way that makes it look like the answer you wanted was "Yeah! You're totally right! Sharpening crutches ARE better, anyone who disagrees are just being snobs!"

I mean, come on now.

Edit: and just so you understand my point of view: sure, crutches are ok, but they'll never be a replacement for real skills, so no, in no way are they "better" as you claim. This is one of those cases where it's fine to agree to disagree. However, just be aware that there are more reasons than just "Meh, people are stuck with their "old ways are best!" mentality". It's quite a bit more than that.
 
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It's not just how they look down on people, though. They openly deride others and their methods because they're newer. From Merriam Webster

"snob-
a : one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior
b : one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste "

There's nothing wrong with stones. They work. They have for centuries. I never said they didn't. But real life doesn't always work like the story of John Henry. Sometimes the machine/new technique/new knowledge/more advanced tool wins. Other times, it doesn't. What I was pointing out, the whole point of this thread, is that it doesn't make sense to deride something just because it's new. And that is something that a lot of people do on forums like this.

And how is the work sharp a crutch? It's a completely different method that achieves the same end goal. Is it so bad that there's an easier way than stones?

Like I said, this whole thread wasn't supposed to be devoted to the work sharp, though. People do this kind of thing with anything new that comes along. I'm sure the same argument started when calls and decoys were introduced to duck hunting (you don't just find them and be real quiet before you shoot them? Pansy!), or a salt lick to deer hunting, or chain saws to logging (You should chop down that foot and a half thick tree with an axe before you ever use a saw, and a saw before a chain saw. Then, when it's easier, you'll appreciate the blisters and wasted time), or any other number of events and changes through history. I actually still quite like my sword vs gun comment earlier. It even happens whenever something as insignificant as a change to the layout of Facebook occurs (The old one worked fine! This new one is too different!).
 
WWHOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Look, there it goes!!!!

That was the point I made, passing you at low altitude on the way up to cruising level. It even ruffled your hair on the way past. :thumbup: I'm going to stop posting in this thread, it's become a waste of time.
 
this-thread-jpg.60041
 
I know that I'm the young guy around here, but I have a theory about the whole matter. It's one of resentment.

Think about it. In every successive generation, we strive to make lives and daily tasks easier than the previous generation so we have to struggle less, so we can streamline things better. We as a species are lazy, so it's in our nature to do such. And with every successive generation of life getting just a little bit easier, we move progressively further and further away from the skills developed by the previous generations for carrying out everyday tasks, and investing less and less time to mastering said skills as we've developed shortcuts. So people from older generations have to watch as today's crowd can do the same things they do, but with less effort, less work, and it cheapens what they can do since anyone can do it now, simply by utilizing the equivalent of a cheat code. It's a shirking of hard work, determination, and honest effort.

The human element is being removed from the equation, and there's nothing left but a certain soullessness about everything. It's sort of like telling the older generations right to their face that their existence means absolutely nothing, and they've outlived their usefulness.
 
I use power equipment on flea market knives. I sharpen my good knives by hand for several reasons. No heat is generated in hand sharpening, at least the way I do it. Not a lot of noxious particles are flying around like Chrome, Cobalt, Silicon carbide, etc. It's quieter. I can skip the respirator, the ear cups, and the googles. Excess material is not removed, at least the way I do it. I can do it in more locations, no electricity required.
 
It's not just how they look down on people, though. They openly deride others and their methods because they're newer. From Merriam Webster

"snob-
a : one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior
b : one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste "


Just where are you seeing this "major trend" of freehand sharpening snobbery ?

I've been here a while and I don't see it.

Wherever you're seeing it I would just ignore it, and sharpen the way you want.
 
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