Is it necessary for collectors to be honorable?

C

custombuff

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Things in this thread (http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484630) took quite a few interesting turns and the posts toward the end brought up an interesting question for me. People constantly talk about how important it is for a maker to be reputable. I know of several people who have said that they would not buy from a maker they didn't respect or who they thought was dishonest. I am sure this is partly so that the collector can be sure this guy is in it for the long haul. But I am guessing for most it is a matter of personal integrity.

This bought up a line of questioning that I have not seen addressed.
Is it important to you to be honest in your collecting endeavors? Or is all fair? Seasoned makers are cheered for their openness to teach new makers the ropes. I think this is important for collectors too, but some might be hesitant as it could create competition for certain pieces of common interest. Should long-time collectors help those that don't know as much? Does it matter if the collector has no interest in the work or is only looking for a profit? What if you are unsure, which side do you err on?

This is not the norm, but I have seen a collector that didn't know what they had being taken advantage of as they were selling a knife at less than they should have been. Is it other collectors' duty to inform them? Or is the seller supposed to do their homework and "live and learn."

At a show, if you know of another person that has their name in for a lottery drawing for a maker and you are also looking to pick up a piece by this maker-do you remind them when it's time? At the lottery, a ticket number has been called and no one is responding. The maker is about to draw another number, you see that the person standing next to you has that ticket, but they didn't hear because they were distracted; Do you tell them?

Most of the people I have met are quite honest in most things they do--including collecting. But when it comes to that great buy or hard to find piece, is it everyone for themselves?

Nick
 
Most "seasoned" collectors I know are not only honorable but very helpfull. I won't give names, but a couple of heavy-weight collectors from arround here provided me with good intelligence when I needed to make a go/nogo decision for buying relatively expensive items. :thumbup:
 
As with most things in life there is good, bad, and quite a lot of grey. Most of the collectors I now are stand up guys, but I am sure there are a few out there whose primary objective is the "knife" and everything else is secondary.

As is said so often on these forums, you have to do your homework, on the collectors and dealers, as well as the knives and the makers.

If you going to ask for advice you should understand the focus of their collections, their preferences, who they like and who they don't like - personal tensions and rivalries do exist (scratch the surface of any area of collecting and you find a very competitive undercoat) and can taint the advice.

I have heard rumours and allegations of groups of collectors for specific high end knives "collaborating" to limit the bids on ebay auctions (they choose who will be the lucky one this time) - how true it is I don't know.

You can see from many of the posts that money and return feature highly in many collectors priorities ......... in this game contacts and knowledge are pretty instrumental in improving the "value chain". Are they/we going to surrender all that advantage?

Cheers,

Stephen
 
It is necessary for collectors to be honorable? Well, for me, being honorable is a way of life.I don't know any other way TO be. I am honest & honorable in everything I do in my life. I have to be able to live with myself.
 
T.K.C. said:
It is necessary for collectors to be honorable? Well, for me, being honorable is a way of life.I don't know any other way TO be. I am honest & honorable in everything I do in my life. I have to be able to live with myself.
Click to expand...

Well said and true TKC.

Being a successful collector (as also true with makers and dealers) is dependent on being respected in the industry. You will not earn that respect without honor.

Now, you can be a relentless competitor and still be honorable.
That is evident here as so many makers are friendly with makers and so many dealers are friendly with makers.
For example some of your ABS makers are best friends yet competitors.
 
It is not necessary for collectors to have honor.

It IS necessary for me, as a person who is also a collector, to have honor.

The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz:
  • Always do your best
  • Be impeccable with your word
  • Don't make assumptions
  • Don't take anything personally
One caveat: When it comes to eBay, I strike hard and fast at the last moment. Relentless is how that game is played. :p

Coop
 
Honesty and integrity are critical factors to me. I will not deal with anyone that has shown a propensity for being shady.
 
I suppose my question could be morphed a bit to be more along the lines of where you draw that line between competitive and integrity.

Good answers and pretty much what I expected. I agree that a lot of people are in the gray area, but I also think that when asked, a smaller percentage would recognize what they do as shady than really exists.

I try to do every transaction with integrity and always fall on that side when integrity and competition collide. I suppose that's because (right or wrong) I don't view collecting as competitive.

I also want to say that every collector I have personally had interactions with has conducted themselves with the utmost integrity.

Nick
 
SharpByCoop said:
One caveat: When it comes to eBay, I strike hard and fast at the last moment. Relentless is how that game is played.
Coop
Click to expand...

But that's an auction, so different rules apply.

Not being a collector but having been in business for myself I think you have to have personal integrity in all dealings.
 
custombuff said:
Most of the people I have met are quite honest in most things they do--including collecting. But when it comes to that great buy or hard to find piece, is it everyone for themselves?

Nick
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This is an interesting question.

I will say sometimes......

It is not a matter of being honorable.

Honor is intrinsic to many, but not all of us, and then it becomes a matter of definition.

If in a lottery, would I search out someone I know whose name has been called to let them know? Yes.

If my name is called for a lottery and I want to flip the knife for maximum profit, will I do so? Yes.

Will I procure a knife for a friend who could not make the show I am at, even if I want it for myself? Usually. If I don't want the knife, always.

Do I care if others think that this is dishonorable, or bad sport? Not at all.

I leave it to those who have sold me knives, purchased knives from me, and know me as a person to judge if I am honorable or not, certainly define myself as such, but there are people that may not.

There is the matter of personal honor and how honorable you are perceived to be.

I only count those as friends that share the same values as I do, and only interact with them, whenever possible.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I think the majority of collectors are honest , however you will always have the people out to make a quick profit by turning something right away and will do what they can to acquire it ...

a few years ago I was running an errand for a friend at a show , he agreed to get in line to get a card for me in exchange for me running this errand , he called me , card was a king , I arrive at the show , go to claim my card , but I got burned , my card was mysterically MIA ,( later found it was given to someone else ), in the end I ended up being given a 4 of clubs , the King never got drawn but the 4 did :)
 
I don't think that turning a quick profit is dishonorable. It is Capitalism.

If I know for a fact that someone is just trying to make a profit, I will not be inclined to provide them with any assistance, but I certainly won't consider them to be dishonorable.
 
Honor is a virtue, an absract concept like courage, or patients. Being an abstract concept, it's a guideline, a standard, a tool to be used for good or evil by it's user. In general, it's a good thing for everyone to be honorable, no matter who or what they are. Like anything else, it can be used against you, and if taken to extremes, can be a bad thing. Honor has been defined as many different ways as there are different people to define it. The fact that someone has always been honerable, doesn't mean they always will be.... and having been dishonorable doesn't mean you can't be now. It is not ours to judge the hearts of other men, it is enough to ensure that our own is pure!
JDBraddy
 
Being honourable is the only way to keep friends and business associates.

I have only run across one individual who blatently under bid a knife then tried to bully all other competitors away from the negotiations...He will not be named, neither will I speak to him again.

Most collectors will understand the value of knives they are interested in and will not try to low ball the price and are respected for that. In my position anyone who tries to purchase a knife way below the true value is seen as not a serious collector.
 
I believe so, yes. But I can tell you that I have had two guys (who get positive reviews on GBU) not tell me the knives I was offering was priced way way way below market and capitalised on my ignorance. They didn't even give me a good price when I was interested in the knives they were selling later. I will remember and learn.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I don't think that turning a quick profit is dishonorable. It is Capitalism.

If I know for a fact that someone is just trying to make a profit, I will not be inclined to provide them with any assistance, but I certainly won't consider them to be dishonorable.
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SAME HERE :thumbup:
 
Guys, yeah, all of the above, but it has nothing to do with honor, with wanting make a profit, etc. Just to boil it down, it has everything to do with having a moral compass that is pointed generally in the right direction.
 
Collectors are not honorable. They are motivated by lust and if they are collector/dealers, they are motivated by lust and greed. Both are "sins" in most religions.

I'll give you an example. For awhile, I lived in the midwest, when someone dies who knows Lile or were big buyers when the Guild Show was full of "greats" and in Kansas City, the cockroaches come out of the wordwork. They have been known to badger widows and family members the week of the death by offering to buy, look over, "appraise" the knives. They also alert other collectors and dealers if they are unsuccessful. There are at least two collectors and two dealer/collectors who inhabit this forum whose names bring snears to the face of the "small-timers" at local shows for their unscrupulous behavior in trying to snag Lile, Loveless, etc. from widows and estates.
 
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