Is Kershaw second rate?

Keith Montgomery said:
Are youz sayin' I ain't sophisticated, ya bum? :grumpy: :p
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I always thought you wuz very sophisticated for a Canadian, eh!

Maybe it's just too cold up north for metal-handled knives. :p
 
Mr. Welk, I think you just demonstrated my thesis -- not even a forum, just one appearance, and look at the flood of interest! :D

You guys got good knives. I look forward to a few more with S30V and G-10 -- I've seen what that new Bump is like, and I like way you do the combination.

Thanks for joining us!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Mr. Welk, I think you just demonstrated my thesis -- not even a forum, just one appearance, and look at the flood of interest! :D

You guys got good knives. I look forward to a few more with S30V and G-10 -- I've seen what that new Bump is like, and I like way you do the combination.

Thanks for joining us!
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+1 to what he said :thumbup:
 
I liked Hair's example a lot. For many years, Kershaw has been providing knives people like, can afford, and do a great job in everyday use. Thier knives are always razor sharp, excellent value, and have great support. I think maybe Pontiac rather than Ford.

While I'm a bit if a steel snob at this point, I can say that the steel used in a blade is a "baseline" and the final "quality" of the knife has a lot more to do with what is done with the steel than with what the "baseline" steel was. That is to say a basic 440A knife COULD be of higher quality than a 154CM knife (although if the same care an processing were done to both the 154CM would end up being of higher quality). Kershaw has a LOT of experience making a fine produce with plain materials.

I've been using a $40 Leek for 3 years or so in EDC and while I have never been happy that is was made of 440A, it came (and still is) razor sharp and has served me extremely well. Yes I have $100 Spyderco's and $200 Benchmade's with the same story, but you tell me which is the better blade? Until I stress one beyond its limits and it fails, I can't say which is "better" but I already know Kershaw provided the best value. I have had some "supersteel" knives fail where my old LEEK has not.

In the past couple of years I have noticed more "high end" Kershaws becoming available. By high end I mean premium materials, and more attractive implementations. Given Kershaw's ability with plain materials I would expect a lot from these higher end products.

I reciently purchased a Spec Bump ($90) and it appears a fine as any BM or Spyderco, Cold Steel, Lone Wolf, etc that I own. Ask me in six months if its still sharp, or if I've chipped the blade, or if I managed to close it when I was not supposed to and have changed my name to stumpy ;-)

I reciently got a "Random LEEK" as well - this looks much like a black LEEK but has a slightly different blade (and is made of S30V). As a steel snob I'm very happy with my $125 purchase, but I'll still likely travel with my $40 440A original most of the time.

Good, better, and best are often very subjective. As I buy knives to "use", not really collect - I want something that does the job, stays sharp, is easy to maintain, and does not fail. I have knives from $10 to over $1000 and most have met this criteria.

Human nature being what it is, when talking about knives to someone interested I am likely going to spend more time on the latest, coolest, most premium and fantastic examples in my experience, rather than the plainer workhorse stuff I use everyday. Is one "better" than the other - the answer of course is - it depends!

Take a good look at the "EDC" threads here and elsewhere and you'll see Kershaw well represented!
 
From an ordinary retail perspective, Kershaw knives are pretty much the tops. I work in a mall, and I do not see too many afficianados in my store. If someone comes in with a price range in mind, I usually have a Kershaw to pull out for them. The steels may be so-so, but the knife as a whole is very appealing (Made in America, Lifetime warrantee, spring loaded). They are easy to sell, and the public eats them up.
I look forward to seeing some higher end Kershaws soon.
Slipjoints, anyone?
 
Wow, where to start? Thank you all for the hospitality.

Keith M, There are quite a few new patterns for 06, I trust there will be a Kershaw with your name on it in the future..
I think my input may be sporadic, as time is tough to come by.

The G-10 Leeks (approx 500 pieces) that are on the market now, where done for one of our East Coast Distributors. Another 1000 polished G-10 (yes like the old Random Task), S30V Leeks will hit in Jan/Feb, and then a textured G-10, S30V Leek will be part of our regular 2006 line-up.

A high end Blur has been discussed internally many times, we will have to see, but nothing right away.

Esav & others, I do feel the interest, and thank you all. Nothing like feeling like fresh meat. :D

Krull, I guess I would disagree with you on our USA quality. Our assisted openers are pretty sweet, MIM technology is not the norm, we do a tough frame lock, plus the challenging Stud Lock. We have used S60V, S30V, CPM154, 440C, and D2 blade steel. We 3-D machine both aluminum and G-10 for scale materials. We utilize Ken Onion, Frank Centofonte, and Grant & Gavin Hawk's talents. Our production manager is one of the best in the industry, and our facility is pretty state-of-the-art. We have a custom knifemaker on staff, and an R&D dept. that I would put up with anyones. Throw in our customer service, and I think we do pretty darn good.

Ok my wife is now officially ticked off at me. I told her I need a short break from our vacation.

One last thing, the E.T....wow.
 
I happen to really like Kershaw myself. I only own two of their models, the Vapor II (China made, but a good knife for the money) and the Japanese made Hawk (excellent gents knife made from high quality materials). Both are great little knives.

When I started having some blade play issues with the Vapor II, I called Kershaw for some parts. The warranty department was closed when I called, but I left a message. The very next morning I awoke to a message on my phone. It was Kershaw calling back to tell me that they'd sent the parts I needed. Admittedly, I abused the Vapor, it was my beater for scraping stuff when I didn't want to use one of the nicer knives... but that didn't seem to matter. I offered to pay for either the parts or shipping or both... but they said no.

Two days later, the parts arrived... first class mail, free of charge.

Yes, Kershaw uses some less than top of the line materials for most of their line, but they back up their products with a great warranty and great people. The quality of their knives has gone up over the past few years and some of their line is on par with Spyderco and Benchmade.

Lately I've been most interested in Spydercos and more traditional slipjoints, but whenever I feel the itch for a new knife, I alwasy look through the Kershaw offerings.
 
That is the thing I like about Blade Forums. You rave about a knife and someone who owns the company, or is highly involved with the company steps in for a chat!

Thomas W, thanks for dropping in.

I am a professional chef and one who recommends the Kai Shun range of kitchen knives at every occasion I can. If you do a search, you will find I post pictures here too ;) I just have one Kai, and it is a Japanese made Kai purchased in England. I have about 60 kitchen knives including a full set of Globals, but the Kai is used for 95% of the cutting work I do.

I had always puzzled at the relationship between Kershaw in the US, Kai in Japan and the word 'Shun' which is often advertised as the 'maker'. Thanks for clarifying.

Quite simply, you make a beautifully crafted kitchen knife which oozes quality, is in the price reach of the home cook, but is tough enough for the professional chef. It is also pretty with its damascus blade, and Pakka wood handle, which makes it exclusive enough for a knife-nut. I would like to compare the US and Japanese variants at some stage though.

Cheers
 
Thanks for joining Mr. Welk. I'd like a Kershaw dedicated Forum too, I have very positive experience with Kershaw :)
Now please excuse my ignorance, but what's the MIM Technology? :confused:
 
As much as I love all the designs from Kershaw, the steel specs have really worried me lately. After getting a Boa in S60V, and finding out that it was only heat treated to 55-57Rc, I wasn’t happy. I would have bought a Bump by now, but… the specs that I’ve read have said that the blade is no harder than the Boa! That is not good for performance.
And this carries over to newer models as well; Kershaw only hardens their sandvik 13C26 to 54-56Rc! And 440-A is only slightly better at 55-57Rc. (see the kershawknives.com steel chart) This is not acceptable to me. Kershaw uses lots of high end materials, but until they treat them right, I cannot consider them a first class knife company. (Sorry to be such a downer, but good steel is the only reason I’m in this hobby.)
 
Joshua J. said:
After getting a Boa in S60V, and finding out that it was only heat treated to 55-57Rc, I wasn’t happy.
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S60V worked best when heat treated to the mid 50's. When it was harder it chipped too much.

I've personally found Kershaw's heat treat of 440A to be the best of the factories using 440A.

The question of Kershaw being second rate is pretty lame if you look at their list of accomplishments in the last several years:

  • Assisted Opener
  • Polished G10 Scales
  • Crucible CPM Steels
  • Sculpted Titanium Scales
  • Vault Lock
  • Stud Lock
  • MIM Blades
  • Hidden Stop Pin

The new new Spec Bump is an amazing knife. It is the first factory knife to use the new CPM 154, the G10 scales are 3D milled on the side and edges, it has the new Stud Lock, The stop pin is hidden. Any of these features would be news worthy on any knife. All these features are in one knife, and the knife is made by a factory! How many custom knifemakers use hidden stop pins?

The new Offset is another amazing knife. The MIM blade is different looking but it works great. I've been using it for a few weeks and I'm impressed with its ability to cut and hold an edge. The scary sharp edge went away fairly quickly, but the edge remains very "toothy". It continues to cut better than I think it should. The forward part of the blade bevel is convex and the recurve is hollow ground. When I get a little free time I'm going to convex grind the forward part of the blade edge. The handle is very ergonomic. I've used it for long periods of time and the handle did not make any hot spots in my hand.

If anyone thinks Kershaw only makes knives with mediocre steel, construction quality and/or little innovation, you need to rethink your position.
 
Well my "problem" with Kershaw in the recent years was that I don't like assisted openers and that Ken Onion's designs don't appeal to me. However, I never received the impression Kershaw's quality or value were in question, so I never saw them as "second rate".

With the recent release of the nicely made Hawk ET, Kershaw really grabbed my attention. It's a cool design and it works surprisingly well. I don't think the big companies could have made it any better. *hint*Hmm, a Kershaw T.O.A.D. would be nice...*hint*

But as mentioned before, Kershaw needs a forum badly. Companies like Spyderco and Benchmade benefit vastly from their own forums.
 
Hair said:
Kershaw is like Ford, while Benchmade and Spyderco are like Ferrari and Porsche.

And, boy don't I wish I would have would have kept my "68 289 Mustang"! My EDC has been a 1410 Titanium scale ATS 34 liner lock for the last three plus years, (Just got a BM 750 for Christmas). I have alot of the older models because we used to sell them at the local hardware store and I can not say enough good things about them. AS for the assited openers, I have most of the models but they just don't seem to get much use, to small, to pretty etc., so am glad to see new models come out with high end steel and G-10 scales.
Just like all of the companies, Kershaw has to make good, better, and best products to stay alive. Hopefully when we compare them with oter product we are comparing "Apples to Apples".:p
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STR said:
I guess it is true that Kershaw doesn't get quite the attention that some of the other companies do around here but I would not consider them a second rate company. They have a top notch cust. service dept. for sure that is up there with the best of the best. I wish on some of their knives that the steels they offered were better but in truth they hold their own in many hands. I have the Black Out, Scallion, Leek, and Chive and love all of them just fine. I would love to see them start a forum here though. I think that is a really good way to mix it up with the customer and the end line user to gain valuable feed back on their product line.

STR
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You and me both. I only own a couple of Kershaws but both were top quality knives at an excellent price. There are very few knives which can compare to a Vapor at the 20 dollar price point.
Matt
edited to add that I like the car analogy but I really don't consider Spyderco/Benchmade to be the high end luxury cars like Porshe/Ferrari. I would compare them to BMW/Lexus/Infiniti. I think that Chris Reeve/Bradley/CKT are the super high ends ;)
 
I own a few kershaw knives, I have one of the original black speed assist linerlock kershaw, ( I dont remember the name or model # ) I think is was a 1095 model ???
I own a rainbow leek, a grey leek , a black chive, and a older older model metal frame lockback. In fact that old lockback is responsible for giving me one of the worst cuts I have ever had.
my son edc is a chive.
My 3 kids all have a few kershaw knives.
I really have no complaint about them.
They are sharp, cool looking and easy to resharpen when needed
I like the speed assist, although I wonder what a police office might think about one if I ever got stopped.
The leek was my edc for a long time, now I am kinda a spydie nut.
I really should carry that grey leek some more.
My rainbow is too too pretty to carry, it is kinda my dress up knife.
Along with several other knives I bought for dress up.
I really need to dress up more often lol
To me Kershaw is not junk. I would recommend them to everybody.
ok nuff said
Good knife hunting
Jack
 
I am glad that someone from Kershaw management is interested in our thoughts here at Blade Forums. I do wish there was a Kershaw forum. I have one Kershaw product, a Scallion. It is a great knife and made in USA. Kershaw second rate? Maybe. But being second rate in such a competitive field is pretty damn good.
 
I'd like to humbly request that Kershaw consider offering a textured scales version of the Onion. It's such a great knife. I feel would it would add to the utility aspect of it.
Blaze148
 
Mr Bybee

As always, thanks for the kind words. Please keep me informed on your long term evaluation of the Offset, and look for even more incredible Kershaw MIM blades in 06.
 
“S60V worked best when heat treated to the mid 50's. When it was harder it chipped too much.”
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Chipped too much while cutting what? The problem is that they are trying to make a specialty steel do every day work. S60V has a carbon content of about 2.15 percent, common sense says “more carbon means less toughness”. I think that S60V was never designed to do hard cutting in the first place, but is made to cut soft material for a long, long time. Then when people complain that it chips doing ordinary stuff that wouldn’t have chipped other steel types, they say there’s something wrong. So down comes the Rc, right along with a lot of edge holding ability.
I think that people were so quick to jump on the new steel bandwagon that they didn’t even bother to look at whether or not that new steel even did what they wanted. And that Kershaw (and everyone else who used S60V) probably should have used S30V from the start.
 
I've always thought of Kershaw as "second rate". Even before I became a knife enthusiast. I really can't explain why. As I now understand it, some older Kershaws were fairly nice and mildly collectable.
 
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