Is making your own Damascus financially viable?

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
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By this I mean:

1) Can you save money by making your own?
2) What would be your best guess as to total money investment needed? (Tools and supplies to get any good at it)

I ask cause I am thinking more and more about the time I can go full time and what my goals should be. I am 44 years old and realistically won't be able to start learning to make Damascus for another 10 years. I am guessing at least a few years to get any good at it, so that means 56-57 years old. Plus the obvious tooling expense and time expenditure, time I am not spending getting better at all the rest of the craft. Lots of things to take into consideration so I thought I'd first try and look at the financial aspect of it.

Any input would be really useful.

Thanks
 
Hey nothing wrong with learning to make damascus at 56 or 57. That is not to young. I was a little younger than that.
 
Define "Good". If you've got a smithing back ground you can pick it up pretty quick, especially if you've got someone to mentor you. If you don't have any smithing back ground it can take a bit longer, but not a whole lot.

There are endless patterns that are just a variation of the basics and can be simple to produce, if time consuming. All things being equal I don't think it's really cost effective except to say that you forged it yourself. To me it's more about the creation of a pattern or learning a new way to manipulate it.

As far as equipment, I've got a pretty good set up that took a few years to accumulate and wouldn't want to be without. A surface grinder with belt conversion, power hammer, forging press, band saw. Those four items make it a lot easier to make some of the more complicated patterns, though I haven't gotten into the powdered steels yet. And there are guys that are light years beyond me.

The tools make it easier, but I started with nothing more than a forge, anvil, and big short handled hammer, it just took longer.
 
Go for it Patrice! Ive made 3 billets under heavy supervision, and with the help of a press, and 25lb LG. However the experience motivated me to buy a press, dies, and a ribbon burner forge from a mentor who was getting out of the making side of Damascus. I had a client just Fri evening want some cable that he had made into a nice hunter, I explained to him that there would be an increase in cost due to the fact that I would be creating his billet from scratch, and that we should do 2 just in case. The conversation led to me stacking cardboard, representing steel types, mock welding it, etc,etc. In the end he had a new understanding of Damascus and I got start planning on twisting some cable and squeezing it in that press!:o
 
Yep, just jump in, why wait? You dont have to spend 8 hours making it, just pick a day and practice. Start with small billets and keep it under 1/2" thick and you can work it fine. Define what you mean by make money on it. If you are just making and selling damascus billets, it might take you a while but if you are making enough for a knife or two, you will get your money back in the price of the knife. It's really not hard to weld up a bar. Start with random first and move on from there. I've made three pieces about 6" x 1" x 1/2" and had no issues welding it at all. No press, just a 2 and 3 # hammer and ASO.
 
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Ill say this to make you feel better..Making damascus(at least random pattern) is the easiest forge welding you'll ever do..Compared to welds that you make in blacksmithing its very simple..Espically in a gasser..
 
My take is now that you know what you want to do, aggressively search for the good deals and understand the tools, conditions and markets. The nature of the issue is that it's mostly a hobby. That means people lose interest, get sick, whatever and need or want to sell the stuff in the shed. You just have to have patience and feelers out to be ready to act when the conditions are right. Kind of like buying an anvil at full retail vs buying one from a poorly worded ad on the internet. The good part is that you've furnished a timeline, so map out the steps and associated costs and then start checking the boxes when the check can be found for less than the cost. Happy hunting.
 
swonut said:
My take is now that you know what you want to do, aggressively search for the good deals and understand the tools, conditions and markets. The nature of the issue is that it's mostly a hobby. That means people lose interest, get sick, whatever and need or want to sell the stuff in the shed. You just have to have patience and feelers out to be ready to act when the conditions are right. Kind of like buying an anvil at full retail vs buying one from a poorly worded ad on the internet. The good part is that you've furnished a timeline, so map out the steps and associated costs and then start checking the boxes when the check can be found for less than the cost. Happy hunting.
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Maybe $2000 to build a really NICE press and welding forge.
Probably less
Spread that cost and work out over 5 or 10 years
- that's $20 per month

If you've got 10 years, start collecting stuff now to build a press, find what you can used.
Used Motor, steel from scrap rather than used, it's 10% of new price.

Get your Hydraulic pump and valves now and beat the inflated prices it would have been 10 years later.



Maybe you get done in 5 years and start sooner than you thought.
 
Patrice-

Did you drink a big 'ol cup-O Debbie Downer before you posted this??? :confused: :p

I think you are GREATLY underestimating your ability to learn this stuff my friend!

Personally, I think the biggest motivator for learning to make your own damascus is the pride in it. Then you get total control over just what it is too... steel comp, patterns, etc.

If you just wanted "plug'n'play" you would probably need about $3k... to buy a press and a welding forge.

Getting some instruction would save you at least a year of frustrations. Once you learn to forge weld, you'll see it's pretty straight-forward. After getting the basics down, the headaches usually stem from things like an unsuccessful pattern attempt, or realizing your forge lining is shot, etc.

At the end of the day, being able to say, "All work done by me" is a pretty rewarding thing.



Just do it buddy :)
 
The whole reason I got into this knife making obsession was to be able to make my own damascus, as inspired by Nick. BTW Nick, my wife says "thanks a lot!!!" On the other hand she wants damascus kitchen knives, so I HAVE to learn how to do it :) :).

Patrice, go for it.
 
Patrice, I could have you making basic and intermediate patterns perfectly in a weekend, and so far down the rabbit hole of advanced patterns in a week, that your head will want to explode. Open invitation btw.


If you feel a strong desire to make damascus, start keeping your eyes open for equipment, it can take a while to amass the stuff you'll *want*, you can recoup that investment, just like making knives, either by selling damascus stock, or making more expensive knives with unique patterns.
 
NickWheeler said:
Patrice- Did you drink a big 'ol cup-O Debbie Downer before you posted this??? :confused: :p
Click to expand...

That's just too funny. :D

I said it before but you guys are just so darn nice and supportive. :thumbup:

I was a little bummed of course but mostly trying to keep things in perspectives. Of course in my head, these were the numbers I based my decision on:

Surface grinder: 1500$
Welding forge: 1000$
Press: 2000$
Power hammer: 3000$
Bandsaw: 1000$
Total: 8500$ + materials and supplies

That would buy a good amount of Damascus. But I see now that I may have overshot a little. :o Especially if I get stuff little by little like suggested. I do have to say that there doesn't seem to be as much used machinery around here as where some of you guys are located. On a side note, the surface grinder I will get anyway so I should not count that.

Will, When I said 2 years to get “good” at it I based my estimate on my knifemaking experience and the fact I am a tad perfectionist and demanding of myself. :o But again from your comments I see that I may also have missed the mark on that part too. I would love to take you up on that offer javand but I am pretty far away. :( Sadly, no mentoring help anywhere close to me so it looks like I'll have to go through that frustrating year Nick. :(

As far as starting now, well that is impossible. I live in a residential area and my shop is the garage that is part of the house. Small piece of land so no place for a separate shop. Plus no more room left in the shop, maybe I can squeeze a surface grinder in there but that's it.

I do feel motivated to do it because of the creative leeway it gives me and of course the satisfaction of doing it yourself like you said Nick. I was just trying to see if the money aspect was enough to tip the decision one way or the other.

Thanks again for your help and support.
 
Pat, why would you wait that long? i waited for like 3 or 4 years to try it and that was too long. I can tell you this. At Aldo prices and current US propane rates, even with my small, slow ass press and bad welder, a billet that starts off as a stack 6 x 3 x 1.5 isn't going to cost me any more than say $75-80 in raw materials, gas and consumables. On a bad day, that will give me a minimum of 24 inches of minimum 1/4 inch thick by 1.5 or more wide 400-450 layer ladder pattern steel. So tell me this. What does GOOD ladder pattern steel like that cost per inch? That is starting with 1/4 inch 1084 and a lot of waste. Start with say 35-40 layers of 1/8 1084 and you may be talking about more like 30 or maybe 36 inches. For random patter, increase that to maybe 42 inches. Labor is always the biggest cost in this game.
By the way. The one upside of forging for a while before I attempted to make damascus was that when I first tried to make cable, it failed. A month or two later when I tried to make regular random part tern, it succeeded and I only had one tiny cold shut in the entire billet. Now that I use kerosene for the first weld, I have pretty much have none.
 
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I've made damascus and it is fun but it is also time consuming, dirty, loud and hot. There are many makers that only forge during the winter so you have to make enough material or forged blades to get you through the hot months. You need room for the equipment and the time to dedicate to making damascus.

The problem I foresee is that when you run out of damascus you have to stop making knives and make more damascus so you can make more knives. It seems like a viscous circle. The other things to think of is pattern replication. I know of makers that have notebooks full with descriptions and drawings so they can replicate a pattern.

Did you factor in the cost of material that will get thrown away because of the learning curve?

I would suggest you visit someone who makes damascus and give it a try before you make a big investment.
 
Heya Pat...How much damascus will $7,000.00 buy. I know that you do some awesome work...but I don't know if this is your only source of income. I have been a "one man" shop for 30 years and I can tell you one thing---protect your cash flow. You will learn that the saying "time is money" is true. Can you afford the learning curve? It will take away time from income producing activities.

Like any good financial planners will tell you---have a 6 month "emergency fund" for living expenses? I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but if you plan to go "full time" these matters must be addressed.

Thirty or so years ago, I made a similar decision. I jumped into a craft profession without a thought about the realities of my situation. It was 24/7 without vacations, but I was always buying/trying tools that would allow me to work faster and better.

BUT...it is a wonderful way to self satisfaction, self pride, and an overall feeling of accomplishment. Confucius is credited with the saying "A man that likes what he does will never work a day in his life." Plan your work...and work your plan. ...Teddy
 
To start you don't need a press and a hammer. One or the other is fine, you don't need a surface grinder, 4" angle grinder works. Sure, all that stuff would be nice, but not needed. Here is a blade I made with only a 25# LG and $500 forge. The rest I know you have.
1FF66354-87BA-43B9-AC46-55B63B757458-558-0000008CB19F2114_zps6b9c5c53.jpg

GO FOR IT!!!!
 
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