Is precision ground stainlesss steel worth the extra cost? Your opinions please!

Royce, I have a new Milwaukee porta band mounted in a SWAG offroad stainless table which will cut out my blades but I have found that I can scribe a piece of steel and clamp it in some wooden jaws so it is horizontal and cut near the scribe lines with an 4 1/2 ich angle grinder with a 1/16 thick cutoff wheel in it. I scribed one this morning out of CPM 1524 3/16 ths thick stock and cut around the profile with the angle grinder and ground the edges down on my KMG grinder in about 20 minutes. I have done one each day for several days and spent the rest of the time flattening the steel and grinding the hollows. If you want to try it get an inexpensive angle grinder from Harbor Freight for about $30. I have one and have also just bought a Dewalt heavy duty 4 1/2 inch angle grinder from Northern Tools catalog for about $140 and it is great. I don't even use the band saw anymore the angle grinder is so fast. Just my opinion.. Larry
 
Love the angle grinder! i used to do a lot of cutting with mine when i was overseas and its all i had, and ive actually made a couple knives using only the angle grinder. I'd profile the blade with the cutting wheels and actually did the blade shaping with the overlapping flap wheels, and then it was all files and sand paper for the finishing. Just as stated though, im looking to streamline my production and if i'm going to make a run of 10-15 identical blades, its going to save me soooo much time and materials to just get them PG and cut.
 
YES. P-ground saves lots of time and abrasive trying to duplicate the P-ground result with lesser tools. look at the cost difference between two pieces, see how many knives you get out of that piece, and see what the added cost per blade is.

Drilling out blanks looks like madness to me. A QUALITY metal-cutting bandsaw blade will last a LONG time, and reduce your rough profiling to 10 minutes. Then clean up on the grinder.

-Daizee
 
medicevans said:
As far as Waterjet, I sent a bunch of patterns to Aldo's guy in NJ over a month ago. I've gotten the "you'll have the quotes tomorrow" line from the Waterjet guy three times now. I'm done messing with him. Apparently he doesn't want my money. Anyone know where else is good?
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for waterjet service check out mark. here is his sub forum link. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/fo...et-by-H2Oknife
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OK so I admit, I am a month behind in this thread, but I have a little bit to add. First, I want to clarify, we don't precision grind our steel. We use a big ol' belt grinder. I can hold a five-thousandth tolerance when needed, but mainly our ground steels are just to remove all that bad-ass carb, which nominally cleans up within 3-7 thousandths per side. I will grind to a specified thickness, but we always leave a little extra so you boys can do your work. :D When you do the math, the grinding tends to save a lot of guys a lot of time, belts, and labor, which in the end, adds up.

On to water-jetting. Mid-tech is awesome. Yet again labor, time, cost of wheels or blades, and a lot less ruined pieces by far. We know of a few excellent water-jetters who just love to cut blanks all day, every day. It is the best way to begin to ramp up your production with a more consistent product.

As far as the quality control on our grinding, its something we are working on. We have to train people not to "squish" the edges to much, and to be honest, some of these pieces can be frustrating to work with, as you all well know. You can have a piece that cleans up beautifully at 36 grit, quick and easy and suddenly you find an inclusion at 100 grit and flip out. Or worse, 180 grit. I cannot tell you the number of pieces I've tossed because by the time they are actually clean, I am well below our expected tolerance. But, we are learning, so just bear with us. Thanks for listening, hopefully this helps a bit. :D
 
NJSteelBaronShop said:
I cannot tell you the number of pieces I've tossed because by the time they are actually clean, I am well below our expected tolerance. But, we are learning, so just bear with us. Thanks for listening, hopefully this helps a bit. :D
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Do you have a giant pile of tossed pieces, and would you ever consider selling these at a discounted price or something?

I know everyone here is talking about precision and stuff... but I can't help being frugal... or cheap :D
 
I'm with Don. WANT!!!!! I can use all the steel I can get my hands on, and dimensions aren't that important to me.
 
That's actually in the works. There will be a section on the website with drops and odd-sizes and insanely large pieces of steel (cough L-6 cough S-7) that don't fit into our normal sizes. Couple weeks. Lots of inventory to do. Should be a party.
 
richard j said:
medicevans said:
As far as Waterjet, I sent a bunch of patterns to Aldo's guy in NJ over a month ago. I've gotten the "you'll have the quotes tomorrow" line from the Waterjet guy three times now. I'm done messing with him. Apparently he doesn't want my money. Anyone know where else is good?
QUOTE]
for waterjet service check out mark. here is his sub forum link. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/fo...et-by-H2Oknife
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Actually we shop to both Mark, Leading Edge in Michigan, and Larry, NJ Waterjet in well Jersey, quite a bit. Both are great at what they do.
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LARRYZ10 said:
Hi, I like to design my blades ,profile them, grind them and filework them but I hate to flatten them. Am I the only one? Is it worth the money to buy the barstock precision ground? Your opinions would be appreciated. I have been flattening them by using a 4 x 36 belt sander and also by holding them to my platen with a block of wood with several rare earth magnets in it. Is there a better way that a normal guy can afford? Thanks for you help. Larry Lehman Bakersfield, Ca
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I always buy ground steel. IMO it's like a lead off walk. I bought two 100# magnets at Harbor Freight for a couple of bucks. They are mounted in a case and have a 2" handle on it. I put 2 on a blade and they provide a good grip.
 
NJSteelBaronShop said:
That's actually in the works. There will be a section on the website with drops and odd-sizes and insanely large pieces of steel (cough L-6 cough S-7) that don't fit into our normal sizes. Couple weeks. Lots of inventory to do. Should be a party.
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INSANELY LARGE PIECES OF S-7! THAT'S INSANE! :D

Seriously I'm gonna want some of that.

Completely offtopic but when do you guys think you'll have some .113 CPM 3V in stock again?

Thanks
 
OzarkMatt said:
INSANELY LARGE PIECES OF S-7! THAT'S INSANE! :D

Seriously I'm gonna want some of that.

Completely offtopic but when do you guys think you'll have some .113 CPM 3V in stock again?

Thanks
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You made me laugh. Thin 3-V...soonish. Its Friday so I'm past the point where I can give you more exact dates. Does bigger than a bread box work?
 
Well, that depends, if its knife thickness then that could work, it might be tricky throwing an edge on a 12" x 12" x 12" block if that's what you mean... Maybe I could forge a battle axe out of that... If I had a forge....
 
Yes, clean ground steel is absolutely worth it for stock-removal makers. I have an agreement with Aldo that every piece I buy from NJSB should be surface ground.

Slightly off-topic... I remain completely unconvinced on the much-touted wonders of bandsaws in a maker's shop. Sometimes I wonder if folks spend money and justify it later, rather than figuring out what really makes sense for them and then spending money.

I can make every cut a good bandsaw can and more, much faster, with an angle grinder for about 1/10th the cost of a portaband. The angle grinder's cut-off wheel does make a 1/16" kerf... I can plan for that kind of waste easily.
 
james terrio said:
Yes, clean ground steel is absolutely worth it for stock-removal makers. I have an agreement with Aldo that every piece I buy from NJSB should be surface ground.

Slightly off-topic... I remain completely unconvinced on the much-touted wonders of bandsaws in a maker's shop. Sometimes I wonder if folks spend money and justify it later, rather than figuring out what really makes sense for them and then spending money.

I can make every cut a good bandsaw can and more, much faster, with an angle grinder for about 1/10th the cost of a portaband. The angle grinder's cut-off wheel does make a 1/16" kerf... I can plan for that kind of waste easily.
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There are often many ways to complete an operation in a knife makers shop. My angle grinder is my least favorite tool in my entire shop to use. I would (and have paid) for a portaband to make the cuts and would do it again in a heartbeat at twice the price. Less noise, sparks, dust and not having to clamp up each and every piece is why I bought a bandsaw, not as an impulse that needed to be justified later.
 
OzarkMatt said:
Well, that depends, if its knife thickness then that could work, it might be tricky throwing an edge on a 12" x 12" x 12" block if that's what you mean... Maybe I could forge a battle axe out of that... If I had a forge....
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I'm thinking integral one solid piece battle axe ;)

Actually they'd probably make good anvils !
 
james terrio said:
I can make every cut a good bandsaw can and more, much faster, with an angle grinder for about 1/10th the cost of a portaband.
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I have come close to hurting myself with the angle grinder so many times I went to the portaband. It feels easier to be safer on a portaband.
 
Tait said:
I have come close to hurting myself with the angle grinder so many times I went to the portaband. It feels easier to be safer on a portaband.
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Tait, I still use an angle grinder even though I have a new Milwaukee portaband mounted in a "SWAG offroad" table . I agree that the angle grinder is a scary tool and I now use a full face cover mask in addition to my glasses. I also gave myself a "hotfoot" when I stepped on a little triangle of hot steel that embeddded itself in my walking shoe bottom. I pulled the steel out with needle nose pliers. I especially don't like setting my old hawaiin shirts on fire from the sparks but it keeps me awake.

I think you are right to use a portaband instead of the angle grinder because knifemaking should be fun too. For myself I am going to get a Tandy leather cowhide "side" and rivet a couple of straps on it for a vest. The angle grinder is so fast and cuts so close that I want to use it and save money on expensive band saw blades. Good luck to you!! You probably have a lot more sense than me but I love the speed of a good fast angle grinder with a cutting wheel. Larry
 
A full-face shield is definitely a must-have when using an angle grinder. It's also very important to keep track of where the sparks are flying. I learned very quickly to wear heavy welding gloves, because fast-moving hot sparks shooting right up your sleeve are no fun at all. Plus, it's no good to set the whole shop on fire by blasting screaming-hot shards of metal directly into the corner where your wood or oily rags are stored. :eek:
 
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