is S90V REALLY harder than the sharpmaker rods??

archieblue

archieblue

Joined
Mar 19, 2001
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I'd like to actually use my knife, but I really like my knives SHARP.. I don't wanna get it dull... AT ALL.. so I'd like to be able to touch it up... Ive read that the S90V in my Millie will ruin the Sharpmaker rods, and the rods will also do more damage than good to the blade... is this true?? Any (cheaper) suggestions??
 
The ceramics used in the sharpmaker rods will cut any metal known to man. They are still significantly harder than the carbides in S90V. If you want to be able to sharpen quickly, diamonds are still a good idea.
 
AFAIK, the vanadium carbides are a lot harder than the ceramics of the Sharpmaker. With a content of 9 percent of vanadium diamonds rods/stones imo are a much better choice. Somewhere around this board is a chart which shows the hardness of different materials.
 
I wouldn't recomend using cermic rods to do anything more then just touch ups and finishing work on either zdp or s90v.If your knife gets dull use diamond rods to bring the edge back, then work your way from med-ultra fine stones.The ceramics will polish and tighten your edge but will take to long to reprofile ect.
 
I can't seem to get my Mili sharp on the Sharpmaker anymore either. Does this mean I need to buy the diamond rods??
 
I wouldn't worry about sharpening ZDP-189 on ceramics. While it has a very high carbide volume, the chromium carbides are softer than the aluminum oxide ceramics.

I have yet to find a reference that lists all the materials I'd like to know about on the same hardness scale. However, I have found three different references that listed vanadium carbide as having a higher hardness than aluminum oxide. I don't know if the ceramic rods are actually harder than their aluminum oxide component, but they would have to be considerably harder to match vanadium carbide.

Since I switched to diamond hones twenty years ago, it never really mattered much to me.
 
So if the carbides are harder than the "bonding agent" used to "glue" the diamond particles to the rod, will it wear the diamonds off the rods?? Also, it seems that the diamond rods available for the sharpmaker are pretty aggressive.... If I want a more "polished" edge, I rectum I would have to go to a different system, like an edgepro... thoughts??
 
archieblue said:
So if the carbides are harder than the "bonding agent" used to "glue" the diamond particles to the rod, will it wear the diamonds off the rods?? Also, it seems that the diamond rods available for the sharpmaker are pretty aggressive.... If I want a more "polished" edge, I rectum I would have to go to a different system, like an edgepro... thoughts??
Click to expand...


:eek:
 
Morales said:
Found it...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5416701&postcount=13
Click to expand...

So... according to this chart, ANY knife with vanadium carbides will damage the Sharpmaker rods, I guess...as the rods would only sharpen the steel voids between the carbides, causing "grooves" in the rod... then when the grooves became prominent enough, sharpening only the voids, the carbides would just fall out?? So, IDEALLY, you would want diamond stones ONLY to use on such blades???
 
and we need it from time to time. :D.
 
archieblue said:
So if the carbides are harder than the "bonding agent" used to "glue" the diamond particles to the rod, will it wear the diamonds off the rods?? Also, it seems that the diamond rods available for the sharpmaker are pretty aggressive.... If I want a more "polished" edge, I rectum I would have to go to a different system, like an edgepro... thoughts??
Click to expand...

The diamonds are held to the base plate with nickel plating. Since the diamonds stick up out of the plating, the steel being sharpened should be hitting the diamonds rather than the nickel. If you use excessive pressure, you can rock the diamonds, causing them to cut their way out of the nickel matrix holding them.

archieblue said:
So... according to this chart, ANY knife with vanadium carbides will damage the Sharpmaker rods, I guess...as the rods would only sharpen the steel voids between the carbides, causing "grooves" in the rod... then when the grooves became prominent enough, sharpening only the voids, the carbides would just fall out?? So, IDEALLY, you would want diamond stones ONLY to use on such blades???
Click to expand...

If the ceramic rods are only as hard as the aluminum oxide component of their makeup, the vanadium carbides in the steel would abrade the ceramic rather than the other way around. Since the path of any particular carbide is unlikely to hit the ceramic rod in the exact same place each time, I doubt they will wear grooves in the rods. I can believe the steel matrix between the carbides could be worn away, leaving the carbides with little support, just waiting to be broken out of the matrix in use, giving rise to tales of microchipping. It would explain why I have never experienced such microchipping, since I tend to sharpen my knives before I use them, and I generally sharpen on diamond hones.
 
yea-yea-yea. :rolleyes:

I sharpen my S90V Millie on the white ceramic stones regularly.

No problem. If you have doubts, get a 10-12X lupe, sharpen your S90V, look at the edge and you will see where the stone has removed the steel from the blade. Look at the stone and you will see the steel on the stone.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
yea-yea-yea. :rolleyes:

I sharpen my S90V Millie on the white ceramic stones regularly.

No problem. If you have doubts, get a 10-12X lupe, sharpen your S90V, look at the edge and you will see where the stone has removed the steel from the blade. Look at the stone and you will see the steel on the stone.

sal
Click to expand...

Hey sal,

What about that experimental 125V millie? Does that sharpen well on the ceramic rods? :p

(Really, I'm curious).

I'm considering investing in either a Sharpmaker or some diamond hones for my Lansky. Probably first the former then the later. It's all good. :thumbup:
 
Hi Josh,

I just sharpened my S125V Millie on the corner of the white stones with no problem.

It does take longer than the S90V.

sal
 
Wow. This thread is some fairly technical sharpening details, and someone named rocketbomb is reading it. :p
 
Sal Glesser said:
yea-yea-yea. :rolleyes:

I sharpen my S90V Millie on the white ceramic stones regularly.

No problem. If you have doubts, get a 10-12X lupe, sharpen your S90V, look at the edge and you will see where the stone has removed the steel from the blade. Look at the stone and you will see the steel on the stone.
sal
Click to expand...

Now THAT'S the answer I was lookin' fer.. straight from the horses mouth! I realize the question has probably been asked to death... apologies, Sal. NOW I feel like it's "Millie" time!
 
I have sharpened my zdp 189 and cpm s90v blades so many times my diamond rods from the sharpmaker are getting bare.I guess they don't last as long as the ceramic rods.Or maybe a use to much pressure.but how much is too much.:jerkit:
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Josh,

I just sharpened my S125V Millie on the corner of the white stones with no problem.

It does take longer than the S90V.

sal
Click to expand...

Nice Sal. :) I'm betting you don't have to sharpen it that often though.

Sharpmaker is in my future.

I heard (somewhere) that those ceramic rods were hardened to somewhere around 93 Rc, but it would be interesting if you could isolate the carbides and test their hardness. I guess this settles the question. :thumbup:
 
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