Is the Busse warranty "unconditionally" a desirable thing?

[Rusty Shackleford]

I understand what Will York is saying, but to me, Busse knives are the toughest in the world, and every knife they make is darn near invincible, and I would hate to see them make a knife that would ever cause a buyer to have to ask the question, "Is this one of the good ones, or is it one of the ones that may break?"

A 4th bussekin brand with a different warranty would easily solve this problem. You could have an infi folder and machete but without the Busse badge. They already have a dog, rat and a hog, how about a Hyena?

 

[philwar]

Because you never know, they might just end up making the best FOLDER ever!!! [/SIZE]

They just might, in fact I think the odds are they will. And if they ever make it, I will buy it, 100%.
And I still don't want them to compete against Strider (just to name one). In my perception, there is no competition for Busse fixed blades. They're above the rest, and this elevation is in large part caused by INFI.
There shouldn't be any competition for Busse folders either, but the INFI advantage is more or less nullified by the steel no longer being the weakest part.
I don't know. Maybe I'm too picky. But the way I see it, if Busse comes out with a folder, it would have to relegate even the SMF and the AR to the back of the class. It could just be my limited imagination speaking, saying that is really not possible. Here's hoping Jerry will prove me wrong. I will buy any Busse folder, that is a commitment.

 

[cruelraoul]

I am not speaking for any of the Busse brands, but I suspect that they have near-zero interest in competing against the cheap-O blade/machete/axe lines out there. It's not their target audience, they don't use cheap materials or offshore production or mass production with cheap equipment. Anything $20 is a pipe dream, in my opinion, and I would be very glad knowing that they don't ponder it. I'll pay them more for better blades and their legendary customer experience.

 

[TrailWolf]

I don't see why length would be a problem in 3/16". Isn't the AK 18+" and 3/16" thick? It has the warranty... The blade would only have to be about 1/4" to 3/8" wider than the AK, and 16" long. Full height convex grind and you're good to go. :thumbup:

I agree.

3/16 is still thick enough for abuse.

RAT Cutlery's rc-4 is one of their most popular modles in 3/16 and they extend a warranty identical to Busse and thats not infi it's 1095! From what I gather the 3/16 rc-4 are very popular in LE agencies and militay. Bark River also has plenty of thin blades, usually in A2, with the same warranty as well (well except for badgers).

These two companies don't seem too affected by using a thinner stock while using arguably less tough steel.

 

[Will York]

This turned out to be more interesting than I expected. A lot of good viewpoints and possible reasons why Busse might or might not delve into the production of blade designs that could be harder to guarantee unconditionally against major damage. Thanks for the responses.

I was impressed with how many say they’d like Jerry to make nothing he can’t guarantee under the Busse no-questions-asked warranty. Obviously, he knows his client base very well and understands what most of us want, and he’s made a tremendous impact on the knife world with that approach. Maybe it’s best for business to leave the rest of the market to the thousands of other companies and makers out there and not equivocate about the warranty—I don’t know, but certainly that could be.

Guy, I appreciate your and the other responses suggesting a different sourcing for less stout INFI blades such as machetes and folders, and also your reference to my earlier suggestion about using Scrap Yard as such a source. I’d love to see that. I believe when Scrap Yard first launched, their warranty suggested they would cover anything the buyer/end user used the knife for with the proviso that it be in good faith, so to speak. In other words, if you break the knife doing something you really think it should do without breaking, we’ll repair/replace. But now under the Scrap Yard “Our Guarantee” section, the language mirrors almost word-for-word the language on the Busse Combat site at the end of the section about INFI steel, as quoted by cruelraoul above. Perhaps they’ve actually decided to go the other way and get away from any equivocation—guarantee everything unconditionally short of intentional destruction, and let the chips fall where they may. So the argument for a new brand/trademark source for INFI blades sans unconditional warranty may be moot.

I’d still love to see a thin INFI machete in the 12-18” blade range, as would many others who have commented frequently on these forums for the past 10 years. I would expect to take care of it in terms of avoiding extreme bending/prying, but I would expect it to perform just like all my other INFI blades in every other respect including edge holding, toughness and rust resistance. I think such a brush sword would be a delight to handle and use, offering enhanced reach into thorny brush which is a real advantage over a 10” blade, and enabling speed cuts on light, springy stuff that a heavier/thicker blade would just push aside. I would also expect it to handle bigger, thicker diameter stuff than a standard machete, and with greater efficiency.

BUT, I think leaving the “disposable” machete market to its own (as well as the folder market, for that matter) might be a good business decision and makes sense in terms of some of the views voiced above. Good stuff.

Thanks again,
Will

JERRY:
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU FEEL YOU CAN SAY ABOUT THESE ISSUES THAT WOULD HELP US UNDERSTAND THEM BETTER?

That would be the most interesting info of all, obviously. :thumbup:

 

[Lycosa]

Folder Deathchat!

 

[Will York]

Folder Deathchat!

yeah, well, not here please.

 

[Lycosa]

jk, Broh.

 

[Will York]

jk, Broh.

thanks :thumbup:

 

[Iboschi]

I would rather have things as they are. Busse does what they do well. I like the rules of the game in their present state. However, everything evolves and changes over time. I'm sure if or when they change the game, it'll be something we will all appreciate.

 

[OldPhysics]

So the trick in my mind is how to let Busse off the hook for an indestructible product so that we can get to use INFI in blades which do not fit the "too thick to fail" model.

Does this line of thinking make sense to anyone else?

Yes, it does make sense.

But I can't come up with any fool-proof ways to do this. And it would have to be fool-proof ... something that would NOT come back to bite Jerry and the Crew.

Maybe ResinGuy's approach is best -- see if Dan might do it, first with S7 and then hopefully one day with INFI???

 

[philwar]

Maybe ResinGuy's approach is best -- see if Dan might do it, first with S7 and then hopefully one day with INFI???

Nah. They have much the same guarantee.

 

[resinguy]

Busse Warranty: "With a steel like INFI it's easy to understand why we offer the toughest guarantee in the business. We guarantee against any and all unintentional MAJOR damage forever."

Scrap Yard Warranty: "Our guarantee is simple. We warrant your knife against any and all unintentional MAJOR damage for life. The Scrap Yard guarantee is on the knife and NOT just for the original owner"

I don't read any difference. Do you?

Nah. They have much the same guarantee.

Yes, I see that now. My mistake, I had thought there was some difference.

How thin do you want to go? Busse's are as thin as any fixed blade - not counting kitchen knives.

Well....many fixed blades are thinner than Busse, IMO. Look at all those fat Game Wardens. Plenty of short knives are out there at 1/8" or less, not many Busse in that group.

I don't think INFI is really the optimum steel for a machete (I know, you can start stoning me now). I think it would roll too easily at the necessary thickness/grind.

I love the stuff, too (over 20 Busse's) but it's not really the answer to life, the universe and everything.

Burn the witch!!



Not sure I understand your comment. Most machetes are on the soft side, and roll or lose their edge much easier than 58 RC INFI would be expected to, no?

Having said that, there are members here who have expressed the opinion that the properties of INFI are most valuable to them in large knives, and other steels serve their needs in smaller knives. YMMV.

 

[DowntownDM]

BWM + surface grinder = INFI Nirvana for some?

 

[Last Visible Canary]

How thin do you want to go? Busse's are as thin as any fixed blade - not counting kitchen knives.

not spine thickness - edge thickness. the boney active duties were around what I'd call thin. a "thin" knife to me is 1/8" or thinner spine with a thin edge - .010 or thinner, and not bulking up immediately due to a convex grind. I'm talking "skinners".


as much as everyone keeps saying 3/16" is thin, it isn't, not even close. especially not with a 3/4 saber grind and a thick edge. your not even in heavy machete territory with that geometry, you've got a solid wood chopper.

 

[verpus77]

...I guess combining "solid wood chopper" with "light and thin machete" when dealing with a Busse INFI Machete is the only way to do it. I love the indestructibility of INFI, but NEED it in a longer, thinner, utilitarian blade. INFI is 10X tougher than anything out there, and the performance can hands-down prove it! Make it a reality!!!

 

[DowntownDM]

...I guess combining "solid wood chopper" with "light and thin machete" when dealing with a Busse INFI Machete is the only way to do it. I love the indestructibility of INFI, but NEED it in a longer, thinner, utilitarian blade.

would a Ruck not work for you then? longer, thin, flexy, INFI...

 

[Last Visible Canary]

would a Ruck not work for you then? longer, thin, flexy, INFI...

as far as I know the ruck kensai has the same geometry as the ak47 and I can say from first hand experience that the ak47 does not flex at all in the hand. you have to put some shoulder muscle into it to get it to bend noticeably. it has a 1/2 saber grind, and convex to boot. it isn't thin and it isn't flexy.

 

[DowntownDM]

what, everyone's not as strong as David Brown bending on one?

 

[Last Visible Canary]

what, everyone's not as strong as David Brown bending on one?

I could do it, but I couldn't make it look nearly as easy as he does. I'd have to do a "pulling a car uphill" position to get it past 45 degrees, exploding forehead veins and all.