Is the Russian Bear for you?

[Lapedog]

If you don't have proof, don't spread the rumor. What you just said is severely damaging to a man's business, why not delete it?

What you repeated is exactly what a knifemaker who doesn't have the chops to compete with him would say. His knives' quality is much better than many custom makers. He has an artistic flair, many knife makers would be jealous of. Not many people have his combination of design, technology, machinist and artistic skills. Plus his knives work as cutting tools as well

I asked Zieba about his construction methods. He does it himself, parts, grinds and assembly. I didn't question him about details and forgot to ask about heat treat. I was talking to another flipper maker at the show, he said Zieba even makes the nice plastic boxes his knives are packaged in. The space he works in has other companies, artists, etc. in the same space. Plus he's part of a "Brooklyn-made" group. Per this other maker, he has access to plastic injection mold technology so "he even makes those fancy boxes and label himself."

Actually I was hoping someone more knowledgable would dispel the rumor because there is a Zeiba knife I was considering buying, the front flipper, and I was unsure.

Quartermaster is obviously the poster child for this kind of thing. Their Yoda knife was released on the Chinese countie market before the Quartermastr one came out.

I had heard alot of companies are using Chinese parts. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, whats bad is lying about it.

Sadly the "most American" way to make something these days is to ship the blue prints off to China. Actually building something on American soil? How very unAmerican....

 

[jwh720]

Guys call me a hypocrite and a dumba$$ but I bought a Hinderer instead..I've decided that for whats in the "flipper" market..Hindy seemed like a solid bet. My only concern is carrying 5.2oz give or take around in my pocket all day ..but hey the sebenza comes in a nearly 4.7-5oz so hopefully I won't notice any difference!

I dont think you will be disappointments with the Hinderer as long you have the right expectations. The thing with XM's are they deff don't flip like they are on bearings because they are on washers, so as long as your not expecting the snappy action of a zt then you will be impressed I think. It might take some time to get the technique right but once you do its reliable. RHK makes a great durable knife with great ergos that beggs to be used.

 

[brownshoe]

...I had heard alot of companies are using Chinese parts. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, whats bad is lying about it. Sadly the "most American" way to make something these days is to ship the blue prints off to China. Actually building something on American soil? How very unAmerican....

What's sad is your casting aspersions on an American custom maker. His knives are made by a man, not a company; a US product made by a Polish American who lives in Brooklyn NY. For your concerns, you might not like the fact he has an accent and his steel comes from Sweden

Remember if you buy product from a legitimate first tier dealer or direct from the custom maker, you won't have problems with counterfeit knives...or real knives that don't work because some jackass took it apart and then tries to sell it on e-bay.

 

[Lapedog]

What's sad is your casting aspersions on an American custom maker. His knives are made by a man, not a company; a US product made by a Polish American who lives in Brooklyn NY. For your concerns, you might not like the fact he has an accent and his steel comes from Sweden

Remember if you buy product from a legitimate first tier dealer or direct from the custom maker, you won't have problems with counterfeit knives...or real knives that don't work because some jackass took it apart and then tries to sell it on e-bay.

Actually I am not American myself. The only reason I brought it up is because I heard it somewhere and Zeiba came up in conversation in this thread. If you read my post you will see it is actually not to cast dispersion, but rather to ask a question on a board of fellow knife enthusiasts.

 

[Lapedog]

If you don't have proof, don't spread the rumor. What you just said is severely damaging to a man's business, why not delete it?

What you repeated is exactly what a knifemaker who doesn't have the chops to compete with him would say. His knives' quality is much better than many custom makers. He has an artistic flair, many knife makers would be jealous of. Not many people have his combination of design, technology, machinist and artistic skills. Plus his knives work as cutting tools as well

I asked Zieba about his construction methods. He does it himself, parts, grinds and assembly. I didn't question him about details and forgot to ask about heat treat. I was talking to another flipper maker at the show, he said Zieba even makes the nice plastic boxes his knives are packaged in. The space he works in has other companies, artists, etc. in the same space. Plus he's part of a "Brooklyn-made" group. Per this other maker, he has access to plastic injection mold technology so "he even makes those fancy boxes and label himself."

I won't delete my post because I don't like to, even if I was wrong. I added a disclaimer to it though stating that there is no China connection.

 

[CPP]

From Shiro to???

 

[McFeeli]

Raining on the parade

Hinderer's are notoriously bad(ish) flippers. They're not meant to be super smooth and glassy like they're on bearings, though. That's where I think people get their hopes shot down.

Every other aspect, save for weight, is pretty highly praised. They're built like tanks on top of other tanks. I'd be sincerly surprised if you don't enjoy it.

 

[Aquaholicc]

I dont think you will be disappointments with the Hinderer as long you have the right expectations. The thing with XM's are they deff don't flip like they are on bearings because they are on washers, so as long as your not expecting the snappy action of a zt then you will be impressed I think. It might take some time to get the technique right but once you do its reliable. RHK makes a great durable knife with great ergos that beggs to be used.

Hinderer's are notoriously bad(ish) flippers. They're not meant to be super smooth and glassy like they're on bearings, though. That's where I think people get their hopes shot down.

Every other aspect, save for weight, is pretty highly praised. They're built like tanks on top of other tanks. I'd be sincerly surprised if you don't enjoy it.

The original owner of the knife said he put it on bronze phosphor bushings. Claims it closes on its self "like bearings" so I'm imagining it'll be smooth like the Sebenza. Only a flipper. But I'll fill you guys in later this week when I receive the knife!

 

[Comeuppance]

I find the cost:benefit ratio of Shiros to be incredibly terrible from a practical standpoint. It's just not reasonable to me to drop $800+ more just for the sake of polished fit and finish if your goal is to actually use it. It's collector money for a production knife, and artificial scarcity and a smooth pivot does not make it a better cutting tool. They're mechanical precision taken to an extreme as a novelty for collectors to fondle - It's like spending $500 for a precisely-balanced hammer. You don't buy it because it's a good hammer, you buy it as a luxury good to either show off, feel extravagant, and/or play with to enjoy the feel of it.

It might represent the best possible thing for some people, but I have always found that the cost of the "best" of nearly anything has gone way past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Bladegunner]

My Shiro Neon in S90V cost me $650.00 shipped brand spanking new. I would be willing to bet most of have you have spent a lot more than that on knifes looking for the "one" and your still looking and buying and being disappointed. They make lots of different styles of knives you buy what you like and I'll buy what I like. There's lots of overrated knifes out there some made in America. I buy the best tools I can afford and Knifes are tools. I also buy vintage S&W revolvers because I think they were the best made revolver. I don't buy for status I buy under the pretense of cry once!!!

 

[Twindog]

I did buy a Shirogorov 111 M390, and I did so largely because I had heard so much good stuff about the knife, and I figured I could sell it for a bearable loss if I didn't like it. Plus, I'm getting creaky old, so it's now or never. I also remember a post by Jason about how the heat treat Shiro S30V blade he sharpened really impressed him. S30V is not easy to heat treat, which is why so many people as so down on a steel that can be so great. And Jason is a man who sharpens all kinds of steels for a living. Geometry cuts, but heat treat is what allows the geometry that cuts.

The 4.2 inch blade came with edge shoulders of 0.016 inches, meaning it's an incredible slicer. You don't get this geometry from ZT, which makes incredible knives. The weight is 5.4 ounces, which is a little hefty, but light as a feather for a knife this large. I like large EDCs. The grinds are perfect. Perfect. I can't find a flaw anywhere on this knife. The blade snaps open with a press on the flipper tab. It closes by its own weight.

The blade came extremely sharp, easily slicing little hair-thin curly-cues off notebook paper. The edge was ground evenly on both sides at 22 degrees per side. If Jason's experience holds, the heat treat will be awesome. Great heat treat, great steel and great geometry -- that's a difficult combo to beat. The blade is long and pointy, with a beautiful fuller. It can handle even fine detail work.

Yes, it's a lot of money. But I live in a 500-square-foot cabin in the deep woods of the Olympic Peninsula. I have an outhouse, not a bathroom, but the outhouse has a full skylight. I feel sorry for all you bathroom lovers. Living at this level allows me to try small luxuries, such as great production knives and awesome flashlights. While I could not afford to live in the city, even in an apartment, I can afford an occasional luxury because I have no overhead out here in the bush. Free water (I live on a river). Free electricity (solar). And taxes of $300 per year.

The Shirogorov 111 -- production model -- is a great knife.

 

[LastRodeo]

I did buy a Shirogorov 111 M390, and I did so largely because I had heard so much good stuff about the knife, and I figured I could sell it for a bearable loss if I didn't like it. Plus, I'm getting creaky old, so it's now or never. I also remember a post by Jason about how the heat treat Shiro S30V blade he sharpened really impressed him. S30V is not easy to heat treat, which is why so many people as so down on a steel that can be so great. And Jason is a man who sharpens all kinds of steels for a living. Geometry cuts, but heat treat is what allows the geometry that cuts.

The 4.2 inch blade came with edge shoulders of 0.016 inches, meaning it's an incredible slicer. You don't get this geometry from ZT, which makes incredible knives. The weight is 5.4 ounces, which is a little hefty, but light as a feather for a knife this large. I like large EDCs. The grinds are perfect. Perfect. I can't find a flaw anywhere on this knife. The blade snaps open with a press on the flipper tab. It closes by its own weight.

The blade came extremely sharp, easily slicing little hair-thin curly-cues off notebook paper. The edge was ground evenly on both sides at 22 degrees per side. If Jason's experience holds, the heat treat will be awesome. Great heat treat, great steel and great geometry -- that's a difficult combo to beat. The blade is long and pointy, with a beautiful fuller. It can handle even fine detail work.

Yes, it's a lot of money. But I live in a 500-square-foot cabin in the deep woods of the Olympic Peninsula. I have an outhouse, not a bathroom, but the outhouse has a full skylight. I feel sorry for all you bathroom lovers. Living at this level allows me to try small luxuries, such as great production knives and awesome flashlights. While I could not afford to live in the city, even in an apartment, I can afford an occasional luxury because I have no overhead out here in the bush. Free water (I live on a river). Free electricity (solar). And taxes of $300 per year.

The Shirogorov 111 -- production model -- is a great knife.

How do you acquire internet access ?

 

[Twindog]

How do you acquire internet access ?

Satellite internet, powered by solar panels.

 

[Ajack60]

I find the cost:benefit ratio of Shiros to be incredibly terrible from a practical standpoint. It's just not reasonable to me to drop $800+ more just for the sake of polished fit and finish if your goal is to actually use it. It's collector money for a production knife, and artificial scarcity and a smooth pivot does not make it a better cutting tool. They're mechanical precision taken to an extreme as a novelty for collectors to fondle - It's like spending $500 for a precisely-balanced hammer. You don't buy it because it's a good hammer, you buy it as a luxury good to either show off, feel extravagant, and/or play with to enjoy the feel of it.

It might represent the best possible thing for some people, but I have always found that the cost of the "best" of nearly anything has gone way past the point of diminishing returns.

Sigh, I use to think the same thing when I was younger. Now that I'm older, I've learned that having a better tool to do the same job makes all the difference in the world.
Think what you may, until you have that 500 dollar perfectly balanced hammer in your hand, use it all day not being fatigued, then you'll understand why sometimes having a seemingly overpriced tool is worth having despite being past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Aquaholicc]

Sigh, I use to think the same thing when I was younger. Now that I'm older, I've learned that having a better tool to do the same job makes all the difference in the world.
Think what you may, until you have that 500 dollar perfectly balanced hammer in your hand, use it all day not being fatigued, then you'll understand why sometimes having a seemingly overpriced tool is worth having despite being past the point of diminishing returns.

I agree with you on this point. It's the same reason why I buy Klein/Dewalt tools, I only want the best of the best hell its even true for boots. I know a few guys who buy a new pairs of boots every 6 months because they refuse to buy the "expensive" ones. But in reality they are spending just as much if not more than me on tools and other oddities for work, as I deem quality over anything.

Knives however I feel are just super finicky when it comes to this debate and I believe that would need a whole separate thread! I will say though, I know guys are are used to their 40 dollar whatever knife and have absolutely no interest in buying a "nice" production knife. It baffles me, but some people just have no desire for it. Or you're that guy who ONLY buys Sebenza/Shiro/CKF/ amoungst many other "top dollar" brands and truly believes anything less is sh%t. Whatever floats the boat I guess my man.

 

[Ajack60]

I agree with you on this point. It's the same reason why I buy Klein/Dewalt tools, I only want the best of the best hell its every true for boots. I know a few guys who buy a new pairs of boots every 6 months because they refuse to buy the "expensive" ones. But in reality they are spending just as much if not more than me on tools and other oddities for work, as I deem quality over anything.

Knives however I feel are just super finicky when it comes to this debate and I believe that would need a whole separate thread! I will say though, I know guys are are used to their 40 dollar whatever knife and have absolutely no interest in buying a "nice" production knife. It baffles me, but some people just have no desire for it. Or you're that guy who ONLY buys Sebenza/Shiro/CKF/ amoungst many other "top dollar" brands and truly believes anything less is sh%t. Whatever floats the boat I guess my man.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss

 

[Lapedog]

I wish more American companies would take design cues from Russian knife designers. ZT atleast has a couple Sinkevitch designs. i love how the CF scale on the 0452 doesn't have a stainless steel liner under it. If you check most ZT framelocks there is a steel liner under the scale.

The Russian designers apparently know how to make a framelock almost as strong as a ZT titanium framelock without turning the knife into a boat anchor.

 

[ridnovir]

Shiros are essentially a mid tech cnc made knives that should not cost more than CRK or Hinderers. I do own a 95T in M390 - a nice knife great design but just because of artificial scarcity it costs $500 more then it should.

 

[Aquaholicc]

Hey guys, so the Hinderer XM-18 3.5" Slicer was sitting at my door step today! Man is it a joy to flip this thing, my only grief is the flipper itself could be a little more dull, but thats me being very nit picky. The action is great while it glides/deploys on the bronze phosphor bushings, like the original owner said it really does "close on itself" once you get passed the HUGE detent ball thats is practically sitting in the middle of the circumference. Me not being a first responder on anything would have loved to see these Titanium liners skeletonize a bit just so this knife could have been a little lighter in pocket but thats nothing a CNC specialist can't fix right?

Long story short I'm sure this blade will love long after me and be passed down for generations, can't wait to get out there and use this tool!

 

[recppd]

Absolutely love my Shiro 111 in M390 Carbon Fiber! Is it big? YES! Does it flip with attitude? YES! Is it totally manageable for EDC with normal clothing (no suits)? YES!

This thing is AWESOME and I like it better than my F3 SV30 (2nd Favorite), F5 3 Bears Nudist M390, and F5 Hati Vanax 37...COMBINED!!!

It is a POCKET SWORD! And it's FUN and DISTINCTIVE when you flip it!!!

No looking back for me...