Is there an unreasonable markup on Damscus vs. plain.

I would see more value in damascus if the combination of steels was used as a performance benefit. Is that ever the case? For example, the inherit strengths and weaknesses of each steel are used to maximize the whole of the knife.. using a "customized" blend, something like coffee..

Wasn't it Jerry Lairson who used the damascus blade in the last Blade cutting competition?.. proving the point that damascus could be a top contender as a cutter, but does it ever have a true or purposeful advantage?
David
 
2knife said:
I would see more value in damascus if the combination of steels was used as a performance benefit. Is that ever the case? For example, the inherit strengths and weaknesses of each steel are used to maximize the whole of the knife.. using a "customized" blend, something like coffee..

Wasn't it Jerry Lairson who used the damascus blade in the last Blade cutting competition?.. proving the point that damascus could be a top contender as a cutter, but does it ever have a true or purposeful advantage?
David
Click to expand...
Dick Barber says the biggest advantage that could be obtained (theoretically of course) would be to alternate layers of conventionally cast steels with CPM or steels that naturally have small carbides. There are advantages to both, there are always those that like their D2 better than S30V. Possible combinationes are AEB-L/154-CM (a mix that we've made for a long time, actually), D2/CPM-154, 20CV/BG-42, possibly D2/S30V, but we're not sure what S30V does in etching, and there are many more possibilities
 
2knife said:
I would see more value in damascus if the combination of steels was used as a performance benefit. Is that ever the case? For example, the inherit strengths and weaknesses of each steel are used to maximize the whole of the knife.. using a "customized" blend, something like coffee..

Wasn't it Jerry Lairson who used the damascus blade in the last Blade cutting competition?.. proving the point that damascus could be a top contender as a cutter, but does it ever have a true or purposeful advantage?
David
Click to expand...

It would help if you learned the history of damascus, I suggest the book "On Damascus Steel" by Leo Figiel. Barring that, Hrisoulous's books, especially the first one, would be a good resource.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thanks Larrin,
Laminated damascus steel, with a non-damascus core? What's the possibility there?

I saw in Blade Magazine an ad for a new knife company who supposedly can improve the performance of their knives by folding the steel 13 times, something like that.. From the ad, it says the cutting edge is rockwell 67 and the layering of the steel gives it strength. Maybe it's just pure hocus pocus.. The claim is that they will bring a hunting knife to Blade and do a demo on hemp rope, cutting over 13,000 times.

It would be nice to see the "custom" knife market improve on the focus of performance the way the production market has been doing in the last few years. Busse, Emerson, etc.. Whether that's damascus or whatever..

STeven,
I would like to learn about the history of a lot of styles, whatever that entails. I'm looking to get a video of Bill Moran's "Master of the Forge", soon.
I appreciate the forged knife, maybe lack a lot of interest in the more decorative aspects, including damascus. But, we'll see..
David
 
2knife said:
I appreciate the forged knife, maybe lack a lot of interest in the more decorative aspects, including damascus. But, we'll see..
David
Click to expand...

I suggested these reference materials so that I would not have to explain the long process that steel has had to go through in order to get to where we are now. Damascus was ORIGINALLY not created because it was pretty, it was created because that was the only way that the makers at the time could make a strong, tough, keen blade. The original patterns are more a process of purifying iron and making it into steel.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
STeven,
Old pal, Sure. It would be a good history lesson to hear.. For one, I admit I know nothing of the history of damascus, new or old. Only the idea of it has been a turn off for a long time. If you have time, or the inclination (or anyone else) I'd like to read a little about it, maybe it will give an appreciation of some sort.

Thanks to everyone...
David
 
2knife said:
Thanks Larrin,
Laminated damascus steel, with a non-damascus core? What's the possibility there?

I saw in Blade Magazine an ad for a new knife company who supposedly can improve the performance of their knives by folding the steel 13 times, something like that.. From the ad, it says the cutting edge is rockwell 67 and the layering of the steel gives it strength. Maybe it's just pure hocus pocus.. The claim is that they will bring a hunting knife to Blade and do a demo on hemp rope, cutting over 13,000 times.

It would be nice to see the "custom" knife market improve on the focus of performance the way the production market has been doing in the last few years. Busse, Emerson, etc.. Whether that's damascus or whatever..
Click to expand...
Laminted, or San Mai, or three layer can offer benefits by having softer steel on the sides to add toughness, kind of the same principle as edge quenching or similar with carbon steel blades. The damascus just looks pretty as the steel on the sides. :) This can also allow you to use pure nickel for contrast in your steel, while not letting it affect the steel. Of course, some people like the toothiness or just the idea of soft/hard alternating layers, but that's a whole different discussion. Fromt there you could of course go for the possible benefits of two different steels cutting together along with softer sides for toughness. You can use various steels for various levels of hardness on the sides as well. You have to find the balance between toughness, scratch resistance, and strength.

As to folding the steel making it better, I can't think of a single reason why that would help anything. If anything it would probably hurt it due to carbon loss from so many folds and it would have a better chance for flaws. 67 Rc, however, is of course very hard and would definitely cut, though I bet it would still have brittleness at that hardness, regardless of any steel folded with it, unless through carbon migration it got to the point where it doesn't actually reach 67 Rc anymore.
 
Thanks Larrin,
I'll have to look at that ad again, it may have read the technique used was "cross forging".. whatever that means. Maybe it's like creating some kind of matrix that adds to the toughness of the blade. But, at 67 it would seem like the blade couldn't resist much bend or impact.

I appreciate hearing what you've said, I have to rethink many of my pre-judgments and learn something about the laminated /San Mai variety. So, a high performance damascus is possible (possibly) even having advantages in some cases. There, I've learned something new. Thanks guys.
David
 
I was under the impression that folded steel was stronger.

Like the difference between a 1" thick piece of wood compared to a 1" thick piece of plywood.
 
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