Is there Justice in America?

J

JohnR7

Joined
Oct 15, 1999
Messages
718
Last year I had a small shipment of knives that were being sent to me from the Philippines confiscated by Customs.

Sense I paid less than $100, I am sure that most people would just forget about it. But I decided to follow through with it. Only I did not hire an attorney, I just did all of the legal work myself. They have a fancy word for people who represent themselves, but I can not remember what it is right now.

For the most part, it's pretty much a waste of time. My administrative appeal was denyed. When I asked them to transfer the knives from the San Fransico port authority to here in Northern Ohio, that was denyed. When I asked the Federal Court System here in Ohio to transfer the knives here, and hear the case, they refused jurdiction and dismissed the case with prejudice.

Right now, it would appear that Justice is only available for a price and it's only for those who can afford to buy it. But at least the Federal Court system did review the case, they just refused to take any action. Perhaps that is better than some countries where they would not even have reviewed it.

Still, for the most part, I find it hard to believe that there is Justice in America. At least not Justice for the poor. Still, I know that there is justice with God, and the day will come when He will destroy those who oppress the poor and do not plead the cause of those who can not defend themselves. Thanks, JohnR7
 
DONT get me started on justice in America- it's a long LONG rant. Things like this, the MPAA and the RIAA, etc. really ruffle my feathers.

I say REVOLUTION!!! who's with me?
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I've got a couple hours 'til bed so I'm up for a revolution. Let's make it a short one though.
 
Oh yeah! Revolution, these are fun
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Anyway they should seriously get rid of that stupid law. It has no meaning except to just make it hard on people like John. It's just one of those old laws they forgot to get rid of or are just to lazy to.

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I have a sword in my pocket!
 
John, did you happen to break any import laws when you had those knives shipped into the US?
You pay your money and you take your chances, so get over it.
 
>>John, did you happen to break any import laws when you had those knives shipped into the US?

Actually, when it comes to keeping the law, perhaps I do better at it then most of the people who are getting paid to enforce the law. I just do not think that a balisong knife is a switchblade.

For customs to call a butterfly knife a switchblade is for me writting law. They can not do that sense they are a administrative branch of the government. It's up to congress and the senate and the elected officals to write law.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Among other things, the district court described a Balisong knife as "basically a folding knife with a split handle." It went on to set out its prime use: "[w]hile the exotic knife has some utilitarian use, it is most often associated with the martial arts and with combat ... [and is] potentially dangerous, lethal...."

The district court concluded that "congress intended to prohibit knives that opened automatically, ready for instant use ... [and] were not concerned with whether the knife's blade would merely be exposed by gravity", ... [it] intended 'open' to mean 'ready for use.'" The district court then decided that Balisong knives "do not open automatically by force of gravity or inertia" and had no button or other device automatically to open the knife, and therefore did not come within the meaning of the law or regulation in question...</font>
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What amazes me is, the "potentially dangerous, lethal" part. I mean, COME ON!!!

Look, the lowly screwdriver basically holds the Number Two spot in the Edged Weapons Category in most years, for homicide in this country.

Now, KNIVES, O.K., a screwdriver is a screwdriver and a knife is a knife. "Combat Knife...Martial Arts Knife,' BLAH BLAH BLAH, WHATEVER!

Anything with a point and/or edge has been used to kill, period. This is simply not up for debate.

Why didn't they ban Fixed Blades in 1958 and continue on with that line of thought?

Rule of Thumb, if it swings, or has a spring, it's a bad thing? COME ON!!!

Where is the LOGIC in this whole, absurd argument?

"Well, it's the law..."

OK, so, where will someone draw the line? At what point does it become important for someone to draw the line when it comes to absurdity?

"If they ban black hats in my Jurisdiction, you better not let me catch you with a black hat on..." That is a rather dated saying now, but look...there is truth in that. Is anyone free when this becomes a reality? Of course not.

Where do you draw the line when it comes to the law?

At what point does the law become a burden instead of a Servant and Protector of the People?

JohnR7,

Specifically, for YOU, Taylor had alot more money than you do I would imagine and you see that he was not successful, was he? Sort of blows your theory out of the water that only the "poor" get the shaft...although I do agree at times that is the case.

This is the same crisis creation, and promotion of hysteria that drives ALL weapons laws.



[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-15-2001).]
 
Don,

Maybe Taylor's money wasn't enough to go campaigning for the whole change of public's view that 'balisongs are evil'?
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John,
I believe the law is for the rich and not the poor. I read the 'Dead Man Walking' book (inspired by the movie, Susan Sarandon / Sean Penn) and it was very persuasively put that if you are rich, you might get away with life sentence while if you are poor, you get the death sentence ..

And it is not only in America ... money buys everything, even sometime one's soul.

I remember a saying: Everything has its price. In retrospect, it is sad, but true.
 
>>Taylor had alot more money than you do I would imagine and you see that he was not successful, was he?

James Taylor won his case in the Court System. That is perhaps why the only way they could find to dismiss my case after a long search was to claim they did not have jurisdiction.

When it comes to interstate transportation, there is nothing illegal about a Balisong Knife. If it were illegal, like the switchblade is, a lot of companys here in this country would not be selling them.

 
>>money buys everything, even sometime one's soul.

Money does not destroy people, it's the love of money that destroys them. People have a choice and the majority of people make the wrong choice. They choose to do, what they know deep inside of their heart, is wrong.

Those who tear down and destroyed will in the end find they have destroyed themselves. Those who strengthen & build up, who "love" their neighbor, will in the end, find redemption.
 
>>Where do you draw the line when it comes to the law?

The law is that Thou shall not harm thy neighbor. Man attempts to enforce this law by taking what they preceive to be weapons away from people.

Each individual has a choice if they are going to build up and create, or tear down and destroy. There are lots of things you can use to destroy with. Often those same things can be used to build up and bring about life, health and healing.

The most deadly weapon of all is the tongue. More people have been destroyed with the tongue or it's companion the pen, than anything else. Truman gave the order to use the atomic bomb and within days 80,000 people were dead. Yet atomic power can be used for good also.

Even so, resurrection power is far more powerful than atomic power. It takes more power to give life, than it does to destroy it. That is why good is more powerful than evil.
 
what you did JohnR7 is actually quite commendable.. I doubt many people woudl spend the tie and effort - it is obvious you were standing up not only for yourself but for all us balisongs fans.. and it wasn't an issue of money but principle.. I am sorry you got your shipment donated to the cause :\ but well.. one day we'll all storm em..

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The law is stupid, period.

It makes about as much sense as the other arcane, antiquated and stupid laws on the books that no one pays any attention to whatsoever...
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Detori:
DONT get me started on justice in America- it's a long LONG rant. Things like this, the MPAA and the RIAA, etc. really ruffle my feathers.

I say REVOLUTION!!! who's with me?
wink.gif
</font>
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KILL THE WHITE MAN!!!!!!
 
I agree that the law is stupid, but good luck changeing it. These laws, once in place, are next to impossible to repeal or amend. If you want to change it good luck and more power to you.
But, I think that your time and energy will be better spent defending the rights that we have not already lost.
 
1) Nexus whats with you?Kill the White man?

Anyway, I think some of you guys are right. It's just one of those old laws like how you can still kill and Scottsman in York, that they just forgot to get rid of. The only problem with this one is that there still enforcing it.

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I have a sword in my pocket!
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phillip:
I agree that the law is stupid, but good luck changeing it. These laws, once in place, are next to impossible to repeal or amend.</font>
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That's why they deserve to be ignored. I walk a tightrope saying this, but I am simply sick of the nonsense, you know?

What difference does it make?

Anyone can grab a kitchen knife and have a go at it. Happens every damned night in this country...no one is banning them.

Just like Gun Control, if they informed me tomorrow that I would have to surrender them to my State Government, I would move.

Part of a "Home" is being in a place where you are free. If I have to subject myself to a bunch of nonsense...I'm not going to do that.

That is a little beyond what we are talking about here...but I find this amusing really.

The Automatic Knives Forum, they talk about the absurdity of Switchblade Laws.

People in here speak of the absurdity of BaliSong laws.

Sometimes, the people here look upon the other people with disdain because it does take a degree of skill to manipulate a BaliSong above and beyond depressing a button...

But you see, the most effective way of dealing with this whole issue is, to get the 1958 Law Repealed, as the Switchblade nonsense is firmly driving the BaliSong nonsense.

Look at what I Cut & Pasted above...take heed...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"The district court concluded that "congress intended to prohibit knives that opened automatically, ready for instant use ... [and] were not concerned with whether the knife's blade would merely be exposed by gravity", ... [it] intended 'open' to mean 'ready for use.'"</font>
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Technically speaking, that is a Hole, Stud, Disc or Wave, a Flipper, an Onion Speedsafe...

All pocket knives that do not have a nail nick are in jeopardy.

If something is not done, then ten years from now, we might be lamenting the fact that carrying a Spyderco Endura is a "crime."



[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-16-2001).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phillip:
John, I don't know what you are smoking, but can I have some?</font>
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By the way, pay him no mind. He's a Pacifist and entitled to that opinion. I get offended at the religious angle, however, as I don't believe that God wants me to commit suicide.

 
From an essay from one of my favorite Constitutional Scholars, David B. Kopel

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Is an approving attitude towards the bearing of arms confined to professional soldiers? Not at all. At the last supper, Jesus' final instructions to the apostles begin: "When I sent you without purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," the apostles answer. Jesus continues: "But now, if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." He ends by observing "what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The apostles then announce, "Lord, behold, here are two swords," and Jesus cuts them off: "That is enough." (Luke 22: 36-38).

Even if the passage is read with absolute literalness, Jesus was not setting up a rule that every apostle must carry a sword (or a purse or a bag). For the eleven, two swords were "enough." More importantly, Jesus may not have been issuing an actual command that anybody carry swords, or purses, or bags. The broader, metaphorical point being made by Jesus was that the apostles would, after Jesus was gone, have to take care of their own worldly needs to some degree. The purse (generally used for money), the bag (generally used for clothing and food), and the sword (generally used for protection against the robbers who preyed on travelers, including missionaries, in the open country between towns) are all examples of tools used to take care of such needs. When the apostles took Jesus literally, and started showing him their swords, Jesus, frustrated that they missed the metaphor, ended the discussion. The metaphorical interpretation is supported by scholarly analysis, and seems to best account for the entire conversation.

Even when reduced to metaphor, however, the passage still contradicts the rigid pacifist viewpoint. In the metaphor, the sword, like the purse or the bag, is treated as an ordinary item for any person to carry. If weapons and defensive violence were illegitimate under all circumstances, Jesus would not have instructed the apostles to carry swords, even in metaphor, any more than Jesus would have created metaphors suggesting that people carry Ba'al statues for protection, or that they metaphorically rape, rob, and murder."</font>
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The rest of the essay...
 
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