Is This Damascus

And since i am finally done with high school i have alot more time to forge but recently a mother bird decided my,forge was a good place to,make a,nest and lay eggs
 
And yes weo i realize that modern day damascus is made by forge welding different types of steel but i didnt know if anybody here had tried,that and no it is all 15n20, and also those lines you said i may see, is that good or bad?
 
Did you have the steel tested, how do you know it’s 15n20. I would HIGHLY doubt that a blade that narrow is 15n20. 15n20 is made by uddaholm and is for blades over 1.2mm thick and for the wood industry. And it’s normaly marked Uddeholmstrip. Most all your other bandsaw blade steels are just medium carbon steels. I have a bunch of 2” wide bandsaw blades. Thy are not 15n20 but a good med carbon steel.
 
Hello Dillion, How have you been?

You can stack a pile of the same steel up and forge weld it together. After folding it several time, it will develop a pattern similar to the hada on an old katana. It will not be bold contrasting stripes like modern pattern welded steel, though. One very good combination is 1084 and 15N20.

Once you have learned how to forge weld, I would suggest you start learning to forge weld with a simple stack of five bars alternating 1084/15N20/1084?15N20/1084. Every time you have drawn it out by hand to twice the length, cut it in half, grind it clean, stick another bar of .065" 15N20 between the billet pieces, and re-weld. Do this four time and draw the billet out to the thickness you want. You will have a bar of 95 layer damascus.

JT sells 15N20 strips at a very low price. They are tested, and the teeth are cut clean.

Aldo sells bundles of 6" long pieces of 2" wide.
A bar of 1084 2" X .125" X 48" long runs less than $25.
A 2X.095X48" bar of 15N20 costs $20.
Call him and find out the pre-cut bundle price, but IIRC, it is almost the same. The cut up bundles ship easier than long bars.
 
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Well all i know is one of the main men in the ncabana chapter had it tested cause he gets alot of it and he said that they came out as being 15n20
 
Also I was wondering so i dont make a mistake and ruin my first bullet, would it be better to set the welds usong a guillotine fuller or hust plane hammer and anvil?
 
As I have said to you before, learning this craft doesn't come fast and easy.

You can just about guarantee that your first billet will not come outright ... and probably the first ten will have something that didn't weld. It take practice and study to figure out what is going on and how to control it. The recommendation I made earlier has the highest chance of success for a novice at forge welding. Expect lots of failures and wasted steel. It cost to learn!

The main failure point is not having the entire billet up to welding temperature before starting the welds. If you start too soon, it will likely never weld up right. Flux isn't magic unicorn horn powder. More flux won't do better than the right amount. Too much can make things weld worse, not better.

A good way to learn to forge weld is get several long bars of mild steel from Lowe's/HD in 1.5X.25", cut it into 4" lengths, and grind it clean of scale. Put two together with a clamp and tack weld the four corners with stick/MIG/TIG. Welding on a rebar handle. Cut enough plates to do up half a dozen of these, but only weld up one at a time. When the forge welding is done, cut off the rebar, grind all the sides clean, and see if you see any cracks or failed welds. If it is good, set it aside. If it isn't toss it in the scrap barrel.Weld up more of these until you can get a perfect weld each time. You can then grind two or three of the good ones clean and stack and forge weld them. Once you have it down with the mild steel, the knife steel will be simpler.

Use a 2.5 to 3# hammer to set the welds. You don't do anything as ar as shaping or drawing until you get the billet welded up solid. Start with lighter blows, and increase as the billet gets more solid. Hammering too hard will smush the steel and it will be ruined.

I don't really like using a guillotine, even for drawing, but if you want, try to draw with it.
 
Hmm I have to aso i thought u said steels dont like to weld to themselves??? So how will the mild steel do it effectively? And also why do u not like the guillotine?
 
I didn't really say it propeerly. They will weld to themselves, it just is easier with blade steels to stack different types.

In learning to weld, welding up pieces of same type steel will teach you what you need to learn.
 
Ok so I'm still not understanding how is it easier to weld different blade steels together but easier to weld low carbon steels together?
 
All my 15n20 is $3.50 a pound. It can be a little more or less depending on thickness and how you need it cut up.

This is what 15n20 looks like when you weld it togather. You get a transisition zone between each layer.

Photo%20Jul%2023%2C%2010%2006%2022%20PM.jpg
 
Dillion G said:
And since i am finally done with high school i have alot more time to forge but recently a mother bird decided my,forge was a good place to,make a,nest and lay eggs
Click to expand...
I've had that happen to me before, but she made a nest in my belt rack instead of my forge. Ended up having to order a whole new lot of ceramic belts so that I didn't disturb her. She was fun company to have around though.... I'll have to agree with Stacy E. Apelt on the forge welding practice. Forge welding can be done in almost any setup proving you have the heat, I've even done it with the cheapest charcoal form Kroger's and some bricks from Lowe's before. The real trick is making sure you can weld it well enough to be able to manipulate it after and not break all of the welds you just tried so hard to set. Stacy's suggestion is probably a good idea for a beginner damascus attempt, but I understand if you want to try with the materials that you have at home first before committing to purchasing additional steel. I have seen damascus welded out of just bandsaw blades before, and it does work, even if it's just the one type of blade steel, but don't expect a super contrasting pattern out of that type of billet. Most likely, if your lucky mind you, you'll get a very faint grain like appearance out of the steel. My opinion, give it a shot. You have some bandsaw blade stock, and this forum will lead you to many others who can sell you more if you need it, like JTknives. After you feel more confident with your welds and begin to understand the how-to, move up to some known bar stock if you can or even try some bandsaw blades and with something else between them. My first damascus attempt was bandsaw blade, mystery leaf spring, and Nicholson brand files alternating. It went, well... let's just say I wish I had done more research first. With that said, do your research and reach out to as many people as you can with any questions you have along the process. Good Luck.
 
I edited my earlier post to make it clearer. I will try to re-state what I was saying:

Lots of people have welded the same steel to itself. Sometimes they need thicker material, sometimes the want it as the core, etc. These people already know how to forge weld expertly and almost always have power hammers and hydraulic presses. There are many more issues with welding thin stock together. It can buckle, open up on one end and then when you close that open up elsewhere …. etc.

What I am trying to say is when you are learning to do forge welds by hand, start simple with a reasonable thickness of cheap mild steel, then progress to different layers and thicknesses of blade steel. If you want to practice on the thin stock you have (15N20?) go ahead, but expect there to be more issues to deal with than a new smith will want. Be aware that it is harder to do than starting on thicker stock and even experienced smiths mess up welding thin stock to itself.

Once you have forge welding by hand down and are ready to learn to make damascus … make damascus with alternating layers of different steel.
 
Ok sir, I'm planning on going and seeing what scrap mild steel I have today and get it cut and welded up ready for when i get my forge in
 
Sound like a good plan Dillion.

Oh yeah, we've all forgotten to mention the most important part of all. Probably because we all have been doing it long enough that we all just take it for granted.
As you're practicing, HAVE FUN, even with the failures. Remember that you're teaching yourself something a very small percentage of people on this planet can do.
 
Yes, absolutely have fun.




Now, one thing I didn't bring up is safety.
When doing forge welds by hand you will be sending squirts of 2000F molten borax about 10 feet in all directions. It looks like a meteor shower. Clear away any debris, brush/leaves, paper, boxes of flammable stuff, … and any things like a lawn mower, gas can, or flammable liquids.
Wear safety glasses ... or even better - a face shield. Wear an apron (preferably leather, but a heavy cotton/duck shop apron will do, or wrap an old jeans jacket around your waist if you have nothing else), and wear cotton clothes. Even if it is 99° wear a long sleeve shirt. Have a garden hose nearby that will reach the forge area. There should already be a 20# fire extinguisher in any forge shop.

Welding damascus isn't fooling around with a chunk of steel and trying to make a knife … it is serious business … and should be treated that way. Anyone watching needs to be 10 feet back and wearing safety glasses.
 
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