Is this ganzo based on an existing design?

[DocJD]

Who's alarmed?
This is just another example BS-ing to justify your buying habits.
"Waaah!! The world is broke already so what's the point?"

I'll say it again, buy what you want, but understand that when you support the work of originators and innovators you are encouraging them to continue innovating.
When you support the thieves innovation eventually stops because there is no reward in it for those creators. Ultimately we as consumers are stuck with nothing new.
I do my best to never buy counterfeits or clones, and that is the main reason why.

I don't have to justify anything , good buddy . Just trying to expand your understanding .

These companies and the establishment that abandoned America have no moral high ground , IMO . " Intellectual property" can be theft also .

Henry Ford understood that his workers had to be paid enough to afford his products , to have a viable economy .

Globalism has destroyed the American heartland and generated enormous rage in those that have lost out .

Your morality is very myopic . Good luck with that .

And , just by the by , I've spent a thousand times more money on Spyderco than Ganzo .

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

I don't have to justify anything , good buddy . Just trying to expand your understanding .

These companies and the establishment that abandoned America have no moral high ground , IMO . " Intellectual property" can be theft also .

Henry Ford understood that his workers had to be paid enough to afford his products , to have a viable economy .

Globalism has destroyed the American heartland and generated enormous rage in those that have lost out .

Your morality is very myopic . Good luck with that .

And , just by the by , I've spent a thousand times more money on Spyderco than Ganzo .

Hey bud, I agree with everything you said there (except the insult about how you perceive my morality of course).
My fight on this topic has nothing to do with how companies sold their souls to save a buck.
I just feel that on a personal level it's pretty pathetic when people feel the need to knowingly buy stolen property. Especially when it is a luxury good, because although we hate to admit it, 99% of the knife hobby is just useful pocket candy.

 

[Chronovore]

For all your bluster and purposefully over-complicated explanations, this is all just theory and conjecture.
You claim it is based on logic, but without any "mechanism" to prove your logic is sound it is invalid. Especially when your claims directly oppose the word of someone who has experience with, and actual working knowledge of the system.

The logical argument I have provided remains both valid and formally unchallenged. Don't believe me? Like I suggested to Insipid Moniker, run this down to your local university and ask a logician, an epistemologist, someone in philosophy of science, or even an economist.

I can't tell if this is just a total lack of charity (such as that fingers-in-the-ears graphic), an honest lack of understanding, or just a doubling down on Ganzo is bad, people who buy Ganzo are bad, anything they say is BS, end of story. Either way, I'm pretty sure that I've already addressed all of the issues that have been raised. If there are any more serious questions on this topic, I'll be happy to discuss them.

 

[Chronovore]

In the largest context everyone is a " thief ", nothing is truly original .
*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Back in the Nixon days a deal was done with China . This was continued and expanded by both political parties .

That deal basically screwed USA labor and manufacturing in favor of cheap Chinese labor and opened a vast potential market in mainland China .

This may very well have averted a nuclear war because China was separated from the USSR in their strategic self interest .

Brilliant in some ways but also terribly destructive to the manufacturing heartland of America . Many Americans have terribly suffered, economically and otherwise .

Basically converted the USA into a third world country that is completely dependent upon imports for basic survival . Mostly from China . A strategic nightmare .

Your moral outrage is petty in this greater context .

China never has respected "intellectual property " from the West and never will . They have their own agenda , for their own benefit .

It's kinda late to be alarmed .

While I don't know about all of the points you raise here, I'm sympathetic to what I think is the underlying point. My response has been similar to the anti-China brigade. To summarize:

Boycotting or incessantly making negative comments about knives from a particular country generally has very little effect on whatever is actually offending them. People who care enough to take a position on a country of origin are far better served by focusing on what caused and continues to cause the underlying economic situation. Unfortunately, we aren't supposed to discuss it here for the same reason that I'm not supposed to discuss my reasons for not liking Benchmade. The driver of economic circumstance or market landscape is government. Any effective answer is necessarily political.

If everyone in the anti-China brigade would stop barfing all over threads here and instead direct their energy to political action, I'd call that a victory. Meanwhile, if all the people incessantly bashing Ganzo, people who own Ganzo knives, etc.; would go get active on IP policy instead of mucking up threads here, I'd be a happy camper.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

You keep saying things about me being out my depth or whatever, but you still don't seem to understand that counterfactuals are unknowable.

Refer to the mechanisms in post 39. You can't know it. Sal can't know it. Nobody can. You can try to infer from data but you'll never really know. Also, causation and correlation are not the same thing. For instance, the following statement is obviously false: "Everyone who breathes air will die, therefore breathing air is fatal".

For instance, let's say that an original design is released. Call it Knife A. Then Ganzo makes a knife that has some obvious design similarities. Call if Knife B. You can track the sales of those knives over time and try to correlate them, but what would you actually be measuring? Remember that the number of other factors from post 39 are infinite. The consumer who would have bought Knife A but didn't might have done so for any number of possible reasons, including but definitely not limited to the existence of Knife B.

For instance, that consumer might have instead bought Knife C in a similar steel, Knife D with a similar action, Knife E in a similar color, Knife F that they just liked better, any number of other non-knife products ranging from pepperoni pizza to vintage posters, or nothing at all. It's possible that Knife A was simply out of stock when the customer tried to order it. Heck, that customer might have fallen off a cliff or gotten struck by lightning.

Meanwhile, the number of people who bought Knife B will have done so for any number of possible reasons, regardless of whether they even know that Knife A exists. You cannot isolate the number of customers who would have definitely bought Knife A but definitely didn't because they bought Knife B instead.



The argument continued above is not "conjecture". It is logic.

Also, the "ETA" in question is that in a previous argument against people who clearly did not understand logic or take the time to read and understand what they were arguing against, I got sick of it. I started this effort because no intelligent or objective discussion of Gano is possible on Blade Forums without a torch-bearing mob of self-righteous fools barfing negative comments all over it, often with less regard for reading or logic than you've demonstrated here. It's an ugly stain upon this forum. Failing to win with civil discourse and logic, I offered to turn this economic activism on its head by purchasing a Ganzo for every time it happens.

Yet again, this is ridiculous nonsense that's just a weak attempt to justify your position. You're trying to obfuscate by engaging in pedantry, "well you can't know exactly WHY this person bought that knife and not this knife," is just stupid. It would be absolutely trivial to get a solid understanding of how clones and counterfeits affected your sales simply by looking at the long term sales trends in various markets and how they correlated to said clones and counterfeits being introduced to those markets. You apparently don't understand how variables and trends work in large data sets, but the idea that because it's impossible to tell the reason behind a single consumer's decision makes it impossible to make accurate statements about how the introduction of competing products into specific markets changes the sales data on your product is laughably naive. Your argument lacks any hard evidence and it fails logically because for it to be logically sound each statement must necessarily be true, and the idea that you have no way to know why consumers may or may not buy your product is both absurd and false.

The ETA was a demonstration that your grasp of logic is so poor that you don't understand that you ultimately bear responsibility for your own actions. You insisted that it was the fault of people decrying Ganzo that you were buying them, when you were buying them because you wanted to buy them. For someone that claims to champion logic, it clearly showed that you lack any grasp of causality.

 

[SimplyMinded]

What Ganzo does is no secret. Many consider it small potatoes in the grand scheme and buy them anyway. Only you know your limits but be aware that the money you're spending on a Ganzo isn't helping some impoverished Chinese person eat better, he's still getting jack squat and some rice, it's helping some Chinese guy who makes enough to "donate" (willingly or not) money to the Communists in charge.

 

[Chronovore]

Yet again, this is ridiculous nonsense that's just a weak attempt to justify your position. You're trying to obfuscate by engaging in pedantry, "well you can't know exactly WHY this person bought that knife and not this knife," is just stupid. It would be absolutely trivial to get a solid understanding of how clones and counterfeits affected your sales simply by looking at the long term sales trends in various markets and how they correlated to said clones and counterfeits being introduced to those markets. You apparently don't understand how variables and trends work in large data sets, but the idea that because it's impossible to tell the reason behind a single consumer's decision makes it impossible to make accurate statements about how the introduction of competing products into specific markets changes the sales data on your product is laughably naive. Your argument lacks any hard evidence and it fails logically because for it to be logically sound each statement must necessarily be true, and the idea that you have no way to know why consumers may or may not buy your product is both absurd and false.

The ETA was a demonstration that your grasp of logic is so poor that you don't understand that you ultimately bear responsibility for your own actions. You insisted that it was the fault of people decrying Ganzo that you were buying them, when you were buying them because you wanted to buy them. For someone that claims to champion logic, it clearly showed that you lack any grasp of causality.

... and the wrong keeps flowing. I've done my work here and it stands. Say whatever you like about my understanding of logic, data sets, etc. You have already demonstrated the extent of your reasoning and comprehension.

Besides, what the heck do I know? I only did the work for a Master's degree. I'm probably just some shill for evil Chinese companies, trying to trick people into feeling justified for supporting a dirty pack of thieves. My mind is but a pebble amidst the vast ocean of your intellect. Hey, if this thread is still open by the time it arrives, maybe I'll post a nice picture of a brand new Ganzo with regards to Insipid Moniker. While I am responsible for my own actions and I am choosing to honor my commitment, it allows you to cause a sale for Ganzo. They should really thank you for all the support you've shown them.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

... and the wrong keeps flowing. I've done my work here and it stands. Say whatever you like about my understanding of logic, data sets, etc. You have already demonstrated the extent of your reasoning and comprehension.

Besides, what the heck do I know? I only did the work for a Master's degree. I'm probably just some shill for evil Chinese companies, trying to trick people into feeling justified for supporting a dirty pack of thieves. My mind is but a pebble amidst the vast ocean of your intellect. Hey, if this thread is still open by the time it arrives, maybe I'll post a nice picture of a brand new Ganzo with regards to Insipid Moniker. While I am responsible for my own actions and I am choosing to honor my commitment, it allows you to cause a sale for Ganzo. They should really thank you for all the support you've shown them.

Now THAT actually IS an appeal to authority! I'm honestly pretty glad that you ended your meltdown with a textbook example of the logical fallacy that you incorrectly attributed to me. Yet again, that shows exactly how tenuous your grasp of logical argument really is.

 

[Chronovore]

Now THAT actually IS an appeal to authority! I'm honestly pretty glad that you ended your meltdown with a textbook example of the logical fallacy that you incorrectly attributed to me. Yet again, that shows exactly how tenuous your grasp of logical argument really is.

Yup, I sure am a dumb-dumb. I only thought I was making sound logical arguments but it was all just a meltdown. I yet again failed to trick people into supporting thieves. I couldn't handle it and I totally melted down. The people of Blade Forums sure are lucky to have smart guys like you to see them through. Now I have to go call my mommy or cry in a corner or something.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Yup, I sure am a dumb-dumb. I only thought I was making sound logical arguments but it was all just a meltdown. I yet again failed to trick people into supporting thieves. I couldn't handle it and I totally melted down. The people of Blade Forums sure are lucky to have smart guys like you to see them through. Now I have to go call my mommy or cry in a corner or something.

I recommend buying a Spyderco. It won't make you any smarter, but you won't need to engage in sophistry to justify your decision to buy it.

 

[Chronovore]

I recommend buying a Spyderco. It won't make you any smarter, but you won't need to engage in sophistry to justify your decision to buy it.

Did you miss the part where my experiences with Ganzo knives actually led me to buying Spyderco knives? My seventh Spyderco is actually on its way. It might show up the same time as that new model from Ganzo.

Oh, I almost forgot...

Me dumb. You smart. Ganzo bad.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I also have a masters degree in those fields but I got it cheaper online from a overseas institution that is basically the same as Stanford.

Same school colors, same mascot, same classes but the name is Rickchevy and sometimes I am suspect of having to deposit $300 immediately at the nearest Walgreens to unlock my computer's frozen screen every two days but its totally the same.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Did you miss the part where my experiences with Ganzo knives actually led me to buying Spyderco knives? My seventh Spyderco is actually on its way. It might show up the same time as that new model from Ganzo.

Oh, I almost forgot...

Me dumb. You smart. Ganzo bad.

Sorry, I forgot the dumb part, so I'll explain the joke. I suggested buying a Spyderco specifically because of that, since you're yet again using sophistry to justify another purchase from Ganzo instead of simply buying a better knife from an honest manufacturer.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I have a couple Ganzos. I don't use them anymore. One has zero detent and the others just don't do it for me. I bought them before learning more about other quality offerings.

I thought they were a "a steal" at the price due to having a lot of the same features as more expensive knives.

The frame lock on one was so bad it kept me from buying any frame locks for years. I thought they were a bad design.

The Lionsteel copy is heavy and not all that great, and kept me from buying a legit unit.

I just don't like the business practice of copying or stealing someone else's stuff. It has affected my personal business directly.

If anyone wants to buy one, whatevs. But I won't be "liking" your picture....

 

[Chronovore]

Sorry, I forgot the dumb part, so I'll explain the joke. I suggested buying a Spyderco specifically because of that, since you're yet again using sophistry to justify another purchase from Ganzo instead of simply buying a better knife from an honest manufacturer.

Sorry, I forgot the disclaimer. It's just part of me being so dumb. Thanks again for helping me with your shiny brain power. I don't even know what sophistry is. Heck, I can't even tie my own shoes. You should be like, the president of the internet or something.

This purchase of a Ganzo knife was inspired by Insipid Moniker. This purchase did not prevent the purchase of any other knives from any other company.

On a more serious note, I'll try to get this thread back on track once I get the knife that started it. I'll post some disassembly pics, etc.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Sorry, I forgot the disclaimer. It's just part of me being so dumb. Thanks again for helping me with your shiny brain power. I don't even know what sophistry is. Heck, I can't even tie my own shoes. You should be like, the president of the internet or something.

This purchase of a Ganzo knife was inspired by Insipid Moniker. This purchase did not prevent the purchase of any other knives from any other company.

On a more serious note, I'll try to get this thread back on track once I get the knife that started it. I'll post some disassembly pics, etc.

Nah, there are apparently too many variables for anyone to ever know if you failed to purchase a Spyderco because you bought that Ganzo. Trust me, I learned that from someone with a Master's Degree.

 

[trevitrace]

... and the wrong keeps flowing. I've done my work here and it stands. Say whatever you like about my understanding of logic, data sets, etc. You have already demonstrated the extent of your reasoning and comprehension.

Besides, what the heck do I know? I only did the work for a Master's degree. I'm probably just some shill for evil Chinese companies, trying to trick people into feeling justified for supporting a dirty pack of thieves. My mind is but a pebble amidst the vast ocean of your intellect. Hey, if this thread is still open by the time it arrives, maybe I'll post a nice picture of a brand new Ganzo with regards to Insipid Moniker. While I am responsible for my own actions and I am choosing to honor my commitment, it allows you to cause a sale for Ganzo. They should really thank you for all the support you've shown them.

Finally. Take care now.

 

[chalby]

When I read the first post a couple of days ago, I made a bet with my friend that the thread would devolve into an argument between the rabid anti-Ganzo crowd and anyone who dared to be open-minded or non conforming.

Unfortunately, my friend would only pay in cheap plastic toy coins and is invisible. He is no longer my friend.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

When I read the first post a couple of days ago, I made a bet with my friend that the thread would devolve into an argument between the rabid anti-Ganzo crowd and anyone who dared to be open-minded or non conforming.

Unfortunately, my friend would only pay in cheap plastic toy coins and is invisible. He is no longer my friend.

It's always amusing to see how, precisely, those supporting unethical behavior will decide to describe themselves. Open-minded and non-conforming are interesting euphemisms to choose.

 

[chalby]

It's always amusing to see how, precisely, those supporting unethical behavior will decide to describe themselves. Open-minded and non-conforming are interesting euphemisms to choose.

I'm not supporting anything. The OP specifically asked about the possibility of an original design as opposed to buying a Ganzo and yet here we are predictably reading posts from what I would describe as a rabid anti-Ganzo crowd and those who are more open minded and not conforming to said anti-Ganzo crowd.

I don't care about either argument.