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Is this lock strength hierarchy correct?

it is a titanium frame lock, first developed by Chris Reeve. It has a replaceable steel lockface and a patented Rotoblock to prevent lock release. The knife is made by Lionsteel, and the Rotoblock can also be seen on the folding HEST from the same manufacturer, collaborating with ESEE & RYP. The Hinderer lock stabilizer is a different mechanism.
 
Tri-ad
Axis
Lockback
Frame lock
Liner lock

Obviously materials, construction quality, etc fall into play, but is that the general consensus on lock strength?

On an aside, i have heard that a framelock is stronger than a liner lock, but I am not sure as to why that would be the case.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

I make it:

Tri-ad

Frame lock: these are about even to me some good some suck

Lockback: these are about even to me some good some suck

Axis

Liner lock
 
A strength level can be decided on, then the engineers can take any of the locks and beef them up to the desired strength. A great example of this is the Ontario Retribution with it's immensively strong liner lock. It's strength is well above many framelocks and lockback designs.

As has been stated repeatedly making the lock reliable, and long lived is a whole different matter and one equally as important.
 
A strength level can be decided on, then the engineers can take any of the locks and beef them up to the desired strength. A great example of this is the Ontario Retribution with it's immensively strong liner lock. It's strength is well above many framelocks and lockback designs.

As has been stated repeatedly making the lock reliable, and long lived is a whole different matter and one equally as important.

As always, Joe is right on the money.:thumbup:
 
We have a dedicated machine that breaks things.

It's automated, consistent in pressure and angle, computerized and gives us printed graphs on the break. It's about as scientific as we could create. We get measurement in total force and inch/lbs per inch of blade length when we're breaking locks. Blade lengths are built into the program.

We can break a lock and be accurate as to less than 1 lb. We use the machine to break locks, blades, etc. When we create a new model, we establish what range the lock strength should be and we test and improve the failed parts until we attain the desired strength.

We build for both reliability and ultimate strength.

Reliability is a matter of engineering and materials and attention to detail is very important in lock reliability.

Ultimate lock strength is affected by design and materials and also required attention to details to achieve success. Testing must be consistent, controlling variables if accurate results are expected.

It's just a knife, right? wrong. A modern cutting edge on a modern knife blade has the potential for a serious cut. A hand is a terrible thing to waste.

Naturally we test the competition, as I'm sure they test ours. I would like to say that all of the main players in our industry, especially those that have been around for a while, Do a good job in their locks. Far better than the industry was able to do 20 years ago.

This is one of those areas where "name" means something. These companies did not acquire their good name and good reputation by putting out poor quality or unsafe products.

Knife Locks are a fascinating study. Close tolerance bits of carefully machined and heat treated parts invented and designed to lock a knife blade into an open and safe postion.

All of the lock designs being used are good, if they're made well. All are less than good if made poorly. All have advantages and disadvantages. You are all knife afi's or you wouldn't be reading this. Enjoy them all.

sal

Thanks for that bit of information Mr. Glesser. Boy what I would give to be a fly on the wall when you guys are testing all the different brands and designs to see which ones stand up to what. It's very nice to know that your products go through rigorous testing.

:thumbup:
 
Strength of specific locks depends not only on the materials/build quality, but also depends on what you're doing with the blade. Being able to hang hundreds of pounds of force on a knife trying to close it doesn't mean all that much if you never plan exerting that much force in that direction. Pressure in the opposite direction (ie: cutting stuff) can cause a liner/framelock to engage further down the blade, which causes more wear.

Durability of a lock is also a factor. Liner and framelocks will all eventually wear and make the lock more suspect. Same with a lockback, although wear depends more on quality than usage. The AXIS lock has no difference with wear because of its design. The weak point of the AXIS is obviously the omega springs, but since there's 2, a broken spring won't cause a failure of the lock.

Daily use is also a factor of lock strength. The most likely cause of failure of a lockback is a buildup of crud in the part of the blade where the lock engages. Dust, gunk, pocket lint, etc. Liner and framelocks are significantly less positively locked if there's a bit of side-to-side blade wiggle, which can occur from the pivot loosening from daily use.

Because of all these factors, I would personally say that the safest lock for daily use is the AXIS lock. It won't fail because it wore out, got gunked up, or because the pivot needs tightening a bit. Followed by the plunge lock (mainly on automatics), compression lock, lockback, framelock, and linerlock, in that order. I don't know much about the Triad lock, so I'm not sure where that would place.

Of course, a balisong trumps all of these, but that's comparing an M1 Abrams to 4x4s.

and i would prefer a M1 Abram to a 4x4 :D

fixed blade
balisong
axis

but that's just my opinion/pref. as for those who say the Omega spring is the weak point of an Axis - i've been carrying the same 710 since the year it was released. neither of my Omega springs have ever failed, but if one did, i have two :thumbup:
 
How could you tell if an Omega spring broke? I remember I took a 710 apart and those things were pretty thin, would the tension "feel" the same?
 
On my mini grip if you look at both sides you would be able to see the difference. The tension feel normal and it works just fine, but every now and then when opening and closing you can feel something bind up a little
 
Yes, I think you'd feel it - I would - but as Socom Elite says, you'd also see it if you looked.
 
I would think the back lock / Triad would be easier to accidentally unlock than the AXIS lock. There was that video a while back of the guy who either had a Triad fail or accidentally unlock and is the reason the Boye dent was developed. The only way I could see accidentally unlocking the AXIS is if you stabbed it into something and were trying to pull it out. Even then I would think it would have to be stuck and not paying attention.

Ever owned a Tri-Ad lock knife? You have to depress that unlock button pretty dang far to get it to unlock. It seats way further into the knife tang than a conventional lockback.

I've got two, and they are the boss of locks.
 
To clarify if you look at the lock from the side the spring should go strait down (90 degrees) from the blade. On the broken one I have it just kinda hangs at 45ish degrees. I will try to post a pic in the morning
 
The RamLock as like in the Cold Steel Pocket Bushman is IMHO the strongest design. Not to say that the CS Pocket Bushman is stronger than the Tri-Ad lock, I mean the design has potential to be the strongest.

Imagine a custom maker makes a version with thicker blade, thicker foldover handle then I'd bet it'll bump the Tri-ad off the top spot. And with no problems about accidental white knuckle grip unlocking the lock.
 
BTW, love the Tri-Ad lock and think it's blinking strong but if it had the secondary lock of Extrema Ratio's lockbacks then it'll be perfect :)
 
Of course I am not scientifically speaking and I am sure my input means nothing, lol, but from just general use and what not, the framelocks I have used and Bucks Backlock (110) have inspired the most confidence in me. Nice secure sound when locked and huge springs on both to keep the tension nice and tight.

I have benchmades that use the axis lock and completely understand in theory why it is so strong. But when actually using it for some reason it does not inspire the confidence like a nice thick framelock. Also, I recently got a buck mayo north shore and I gotta say that liner lock inspires a lot of confidence too. It locks up nice and tight and has a lot of tension in it that takes some force to unlock it. I had a benchmade mini dejavoo and that liner lock would un-lock if you looked at it wrong. I guess just like Sal says, its the way the lock is made. So far frame locks and bucks backlocks have inspired the most confidence....
Oh yes lets not forget paramilitary's lock, that was a very nice one. Haven't tried a triad lock yet.
 
This is a good looking knife.

The strongest & safest lock I have:

IMGP4116.jpg


IMGP4117.jpg

What is it?
 
Hinderer lock and a steel insert on top of the lockbar to extend the life of the lock somewhat.

Frame lock with a Hinderer Button, that includes the function to be tightened to prevent lockbar movement.

Dagon's Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALiObhUjEIM


yes, and no.

the lock stabilizer (rotoblock) rotates and "locks" the lock. once rotated, the lock cannot be disengaged without rotating back to the original position.

sort of like turning a folder into a fixed blade.
 
.. personal favorite is the AXIS lock
.. it can be made just as strong as any other lock out there
.. it can be as strong as a lock can be made for a folding knife
.. It is also ambidextrous, very easy to use one handed without repositioning your hand, and safer because it keeps your fingers out of the blade path

Agreed, these are the main reasons why I support and use the AXIS Lock.

  • The AXIS Lock is not the weak point in the knifes design/construction
  • The AXIS Lock does not require thumb studs to open/close and is ambidextrous
  • The blade can be safely open and closed, at speed without injury
 
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Lock strength is a product every individual knife. We can even have two of the same model of knife and end up with some substantially different lock strengths--that occurs a lot in the lockback world with, say, the old Manix for instance.

Lock strength is by far the least important attribute of a lock, far behind lock reliability and action.

That said, the most consistently strong lock, as suggest by empirical evidence, is the axis lock. Low end or high end, its failure rate is simply incomparable, no matter the stress. If you want it to be stronger, use a thicker bar and thicker steel liners. With that formula the lock could easily take more than the blade will.

A framelock requires much more precision, and a resulting higher cost, to become comparable to the axis, and even then, is wildly outperformed in utility due to the ease of opening and closing.

I still like framelocks and have a number, but in general, they're clearly outperformed.
 
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