Is this tooling mark normal?

NYOutdoors

NYOutdoors

Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
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I bought a Like New Tankbuster here on the forum. It was black micarta with a black coated blade. The handle didn't do much for me, so I sent it off to KalEl for rehandling with some beautiful curly claro walnut. He had to strip the coating, and when he did, he found this really long, deep (lol) tooling mark on the blade. Couldn't notice at all with the coating, but with it stripped off it really looks kind of bleh.

I guess my question is it is normal on Busse's? Also, I know that a lot of makers have moved from stamping blades to laser etching because of possible weaknesses in the steel. I don't even pretend to be a metallurgist, so could this mark weaken the steel strength at all? I know it's kind of hard to weaken ~.25" steel, but I'm curious. Anyone else have similar marks? KalEl mentioned he's worked with several Busse's that have these marks.

The first pic shows the tooling marks, the rest just kind of show the blade off...as much as it can be on a crappy iPad camera.

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Just to update everyone:

I am absolutely blown away at the level of customer service I just received. I won't go into details, but Jerry Busse is a stand up man of true integrity. I will not hesitate to purchase Busse in the future. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but maybe someone who is not a member here and stumbles upon this thread with google will not hesitate to buy Busse after reading this:

Go ahead, buy with confidence. You won't be sorry.
 
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I havnt seen many busses with tooling marks but Ive seen lots of rats and dogs with them. I wouldnt worry about it myself but can understand your concerns. Busse charges less for coated blades (many companies charge more), so I would awesome its for these types of reasons(less finishing, coat it, sell it for less as its going to work the same as a Satin?). Its guaranteed for life no less so beat her worry free :thumbup:ETA-The last sentence as Dave pointed out may not be the case. I know better to of posted that, my fault.
 
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That's one of those super rare blood groove Tank Buster
 
I don't think that that is a tool mark, it looks like that is from when the steel was hot formed into sheet. I've got an FFBM that has similar marks under the coating, just not quite as bad. I don't think it is anything to worry about

ETA: I absolutely LOVE the smooth scales and solid pins on your knife. It looks great
 
dericdesmond said:
Its guaranteed for life no less so beat her worry free :thumbup:
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You are 100% right on why they coat blades, in my opinion.

But Is it still guarenteed? will all the work done to it ?

It looks to be polished or at least attempted to be sanitized, I could be wrong (no dimples, it looks sanded and some softening of edges) and re-handled.

No offense to KalEl or the original poster, as it looks like great work and the handles look great.
You can have whatever done to your knife you would like, but unless the Busse shop does it, I think the warranty can be effected.

We just saw a long long post about a guy who broke a out of production blade after it had been modified by someone other than Busse.

Busse Warrantied it because they are awesome but I do believe it was said by Garth;
"Generally, we do not warrant work that has been done by third party people"

I do not work for Busse Combat or any one other than me I am just stating what I have seen recently.

In my opinion the tool mark should not cause you any grief :)
 
It is a drag gouge from moving steel sheets. I see them all the time when guys drag the top sheet corner off a pallet. It is not a tool mark. That said, it shouldnt do anything harmful to the use of the blade other than being a character mark :)
 
This kinda bothers me. It looks like a drag mark to me also. But why would they go ahead and use that blank? If they did why not just throw it on a surface grinder for 2 minutes. Or just grind it down a little thinner? I think that for a several hundred dollar knife it should have not left the shop with a grove hidden under the coating. Dimples, semi rough, maybe even some other things, but not a gouge. Just my .02 cents.
 
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That's a big scar! It's like the Capone of blades. It's kinda sweet but, I think it'd bother me if it was not meant to be a user and not cg.
 
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Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to theirs.:cool:

To me, its another reason to buy a satin blade, in the begining, if that is what you want. :thumbup:

I think its unrealistic to expect a satin finish underneath the coating of a combat grade knife that the company sells for a far lesser price than an LE, or satin blade in the same model.:)
 
I certainly wasn't expecting a satin finish to just be there, but I was paying someone to buff it to a satin finish, just like you can do with any production knives that have coatings. I think it's a little ridiculous that there is a mark that severe on a knife you spend a few hundred bucks on.

I didn't even care about it being satin or coated, just wanted it re handled. KalEl advised stripping and giving it a satin finish to glue the new handles on.
 
I wouldn't worry about it this particular imperfection one bit. It won't affect the performance of the knife and this knife is obviously a user, so that blemish serves to set it apart from other TB's.

However, I had a similar experience with a Swamp Warden. Upon removing the coating a noticed a large raised spot that covered the front half of the blade and went from edge to spine. It made it impossible to sharpen the knife's edge evenly. So I sent it back and they reground it, problem solved.
 
NYOutdoors said:
I certainly wasn't expecting a satin finish to just be there, but I was paying someone to buff it to a satin finish, just like you can do with any production knives that have coatings. I think it's a little ridiculous that there is a mark that severe on a knife you spend a few hundred bucks on.

I didn't even care about it being satin or coated, just wanted it re handled. KalEl advised stripping and giving it a satin finish to glue the new handles on.
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I wasnt saying that you did. I was speaking more to some of the other comments.

Although, You said it correctly....you were paying someone. However, THat someone was not Busse. That is not a knock at Kalel. I have had many dealing with him and he is good people. I have also seen some of his work on the forums and it looks like he does a nice job too.

I see how this could happen so innocently. You want it satin with purdy handles like so many of Kalel's own personal knives which is all good. Unknowing to either of you what was under the coating which put Kalel in bad spot cause he cant recoat it after its stripped, and if he sands it out it is going to affect the saber grind, the overal look, and potentially the heat treat.

So, he did the best he could with what he had to deal with. Unfortuanetly, you get something your not totally happy with.

I still dont see how this is Busse's fault. Coated blades have blemishes. Its thats simple, and its why they are less expensive. You had beginners bad luck and picked a model that IMO wasnt the best suited for stripping. I know this because I have learned over time.

Now, the only other thing I would like to know is who are the manufacturers you refer to that have coated blades that state it is ok to buff, polish their coated blades to a satin finish, and it doesnt affect their warranty???



Cause after the last thread I believe the concensus was that "NO Body but Busse Would"
 
I am not faulting Busse for one thing but selling a knife as factory new condition with a blemish of that magnitude. I understand that I chose to use a 3rd party for custom work and KalEl did a great job. It's certainly not at all his fault.

ESEE, Becker (ka bar) both quickly come to mind as companies that could not give a rats ass if you strip the coating and polish the blade. They will warranty it and stand behind it regardless of that, and I have personal experience sending in stripped knives to them for warranty or repair with not even the slightest peep about it. Head over to the Becker sub forum or ESEE website forum and you will see millions of stripped knives.
 
Please note that second paragraph was just in response to you, knife hunter. I am not saying Busse has refused to do anything with the blade, but I think it would be rather silly if my warranty was no longer valid because the coating was taken off.
 
Stripping a coating and polishing a blade are two different stories. Depending on the method, a lot of heat can be generated by polishing a blade.

I have had knives stipped and polished by Ban. And it is fairly well known that once the blade is polished you are no longer entitled to your warranty. It doesn't mean you won't be eligible for a warranty repair/replacement, but you are no longer entitled to it.
 
NYOutdoors said:
Please note that second paragraph was just in response to you, knife hunter. I am not saying Busse has refused to do anything with the blade, but I think it would be rather silly if my warranty was no longer valid because the coating was taken off.
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NYO, its all good, and Im not saying you still dont have a warranty as I dont work for Busse. THat will always only be determined by Busse Combat. As far as the two respected companies you mention I am not positive and dont own any of theirs knives except for an Izula I got in trade. I think thats what it is....like the skeleton warden??

Anyway, after reading the Esee warranty I see that it doesnt even cover throwing, rust or even normal wear and tear. So, with all the other disclaimers as not on the machete etc. I find it hard to believe that they would want you to remove their baked on coating much less buff and polish it to a satin finish cause as they state it..."its your responsibility to keep it lubricated etc". Now since its 1095 that is high carbon and we know it will rust even more with coating removed....I find it hard to believe that they warranty polished blades. If they do thats great.
Esee warranty. http://www.eseeknives.com/warranty.htm

Ka-bar: Well, I found no warranty info on their site at all other than this, and I have no comment in regards:
From here:http://www.kabar.com/faqs#&panel1-9

Knife Care, Repair and Warranty
> Does KA-BAR offer a sharpening service?> Does KA-BAR have a repair facility?We don’t offer repair or refurbishing service. Please contact info@ka-bar.com for referral. You also may have some luck searching online for a local shop or repairman.

Becker: I found nothing in wrtiting about a warranty anywhere other than post here on BF that never seemed to be answered by anyone other than forum members. Atleast not that I have found in last hour.

ETA: I just found this and the fact the Cliff Stamp and Noss are mentioned speaks volumes. I dont think you will find a better warranty than that of Busse Combat. INFI was made to be abused:thumbup:
Toooj said:
All,

The KA-BAR warranty is to replace any defect that has not been caused by abuse.
The term "abuse" can be a vague term. And we use it accordingly. We are fairly easy to deal with. Be honest, polite and it will be replaced. Wanton distruction displayed by Cliff Stamp, Noss and others won't get you a new knife. (At least TAG didn't want a replacement. Although my sphincter ring was as tight as a steel bar watching that vid.)
If you have a problem call the 1-800 number and ask for me.
We take customer service very seriously at KA-BAR.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
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Hey man, I realize what those knife companies state on their websites, but my personal experience and the experiences I've seen here on BF tells me they don't care at all. I don't really care if Busse would hold up a warranty on this because I don't plan on breaking a 1/4" thick knife anytime...ever. It's more the principle of it. It's also a matter of principle that I don't expect really deep, long, rough tooling marks (or whatever it is) on a knife that cost hundreds of dollars. I have 7 fixed blades from ESEE and Becker that I have stripped, and I've never found anything like this. These companies make coated knives for cheaper than Busse but don't have massive tooling marks. That's why it irks me...that's all. Not trying to be a pain here, I originally started the thread just to find out if this was normal because I have knives hundreds of dollars cheaper that don't use steel with marks like that on it.
 
(Assuming this is the way it is from the factory) That cosmetic groove is pretty ugly to be allow to sent out to the customer especially considering the price. Personally I won't be happy with it and contact the company directly before posting anywhere here, I know they will take care of it. Coating will wear off regardless after some used, that ugly groove will shows up sooner or later. End result are the same (back to the company) with time variation.
 
knife hunter said:
Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to theirs.:cool:

To me, its another reason to buy a satin blade, in the begining, if that is what you want. :thumbup:

I think its unrealistic to expect a satin finish underneath the coating of a combat grade knife that the company sells for a far lesser price than an LE, or satin blade in the same model.:)
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That is why I bought mine CF. I'm not a huge fan of coated blades. Although, I love all users with scars!
 
peak said:
(Assuming this is the way it is from the factory) That cosmetic groove is pretty ugly to be allow to sent out to the customer especially considering the price. Personally I won't be happy with it and contact the company directly before posting anywhere here, I know they will take care of it. Coating will wear off regardless after some used, that ugly groove will shows up sooner or later. End result are the same (back to the company) with time variation.
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Keep in mind I started this thread just asking if it was common because the guy who worked on my knife mentioned he had seen it before. I also wanted to know if it posed a problem as a weakness in the steel. I think that's a fine reason to start a thread here. I was not attacking the company at all, and I still am not.
 
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